Author Topic: Why no Steam for monthly 'Substance Live' users?  (Read 4773 times)

Hi,

I've recently purchased 'Substance Live' with monthly payment plan.
I really wanted to have Steam versions but stick to monthly payments at the same time (I was under impression, that anyone with 'Substance Live' will also get Steam keys).

It turned out it's impossible!!! Here is the answer I received from Allegorithmic Support:

Quote
Checking your account, I see that you actually are using the monthly payment for Substance Live. I'm afraid that we are not able to provide a Steam key in this case, as a Steam key is a perpetual license. Only when the payment is complete are we able to provide a Steam key.

So this pretty much means that Steam is completely pointless for anyone with monthly 'Substance Live' plan, because once the full payment is reached, there will be Substance Live 2016 already, with newer versions! What's the point in adding old versions to Steam then?

Please be so kind and consider adding additional option to Steam - "Subscription Plan" (just pure subscription model). I don't really need to "own" any license.


 



If you received that from Algorithmic Support, you shouldn't post their response. But instead reply to the email and voice your concern. It would be one thing if it was some abuse of power and you wanted to let everyone know about it, but it was a simple answer to your question. No need to rag on them in public if it wasn't the answer you wanted. I am sure someone will reply on here anyway to ensure that nothing shady is going on but they have some excellent customer service, sorry it just wasn't the answer you were looking for (trust me, I've had my share, so I know:)

But yeah, some of us have our opinions on the current subscription model (especially concerned when it comes to upgrade time if we're on Live).

Your sub plan reminds me of how Autodesk's doing it nowadays, and truth be told, even though I personally hate having to upgrade every year, sub plan makes sense with yearly releases especially if I am getting my updates as long as I am sub'd. (And no one really is "caring" about never "owning" their software. That's so 1999 right? )

Hi,

The problem is actually very simple: Steam does not provide any keys which works in subscription mode, as far as I know at least.

When we have our software on Steam, we can ask Valve to provide us some Steam keys: when you use that key, you then own the software in your library.
So for someone who paid the full price of the software, there is no problem to give a Steam key.

However, someone who is using the monthly payment can/resume pause the payment at any moment. And we cannot pause a Steam key...

If/when there would be the possibility to do so, we would of course provide Steam keys for monthly payments as well!

PS: regarding "owning" the software, most of our users are happy about it, even if it's so 1999 ;) This is why the monthly payment is not a subscription model, but more a "rent-to-own" model.

Cheers,
Nico
Director of Product Management & COO

jungle11@migmail.pl


@VictorB:
I do not see any rag on Algorithmic Support. My intention was to make very clear that there are Substance Live limitations (no Steam for monthly users) and simply request additional pure subscription option that Steam does support:



@Nicolas Liatti:
I really do understand why it's not compatible with Substance Live model. That's why the only thing I ask is this:

Please be so kind and consider adding additional option to Steam - "Subscription Plan"

Again, nobody is asking you to change anything! Substance Live is a great option and I'm sure most people are very happy about it.

@VictorB:
I do not see any rag on Algorithmic Support. My intention was to make very clear that there are Substance Live limitations (no Steam for monthly users) and simply request additional pure subscription option that Steam does support:



@Nicolas Liatti:
I really do understand why it's not compatible with Substance Live model. That's why the only thing I ask is this:

Please be so kind and consider adding additional option to Steam - "Subscription Plan"

Again, nobody is asking you to change anything! Substance Live is a great option and I'm sure most people are very happy about it.


Just my personal 2 cents : while I agree with you that in theory it can be done, and it's not incompatible with what already exists, I think it will generate extremely painful confusions for users.

Many people will think this "Valve monthly payment" is the "Substance live rent to own" suscription, and it will make no sense for them to pay the same price for different conditions.

And in one year, when they will ask "Hey, how come I still pay ? I should own these softwares now ! That was the plan right ?".
The answer will be "No sorry , the softwares are the same, but the conditions are different. How funny is it ;-) ? But let's still be friends ! "

Therefore, the users will unleash their rage and build an army of orcs to run an attack against the house of the Starks Allegorithmic. Then Allegorithmic, will use their wizards to launch magic spells, but the question is : will it be enough to save the kingdom ?

ok, maybe my projections are going a bit  too far, but I still think there is a great risk of confusion :)

Once again this is just my opinion.


Hi Vincent,

I think you are right... Too many options can be very confusing :/
I really hope that someday Valve will improve their API to allow some kind of automatic license management, to allow enabling and disabling product access remotely.

I think that would probably be the best solution...

Hi Vincent,

I think you are right... Too many options can be very confusing :/
I really hope that someday Valve will improve their API to allow some kind of automatic license management, to allow enabling and disabling product access remotely.

I think that would probably be the best solution...

Another way to look at it, is from the business sense. Not sure how much business they are actually getting from Steam Sales versus users who are sub'd to Live, but I bet they make a lot more money on Live sales than Steam (especially when you consider the cut Steam gets)

And not sure if Steam gets anything at all (I don't see why they wouldn't) if people sub to Live here and they get steam keys.

TL;DR: Always support the devs on their official site and their payment system outside any reseller/retailer. Better chance for continuing development/faster updates

Hi,

The problem is actually very simple: Steam does not provide any keys which works in subscription mode, as far as I know at least.

When we have our software on Steam, we can ask Valve to provide us some Steam keys: when you use that key, you then own the software in your library.
So for someone who paid the full price of the software, there is no problem to give a Steam key.

However, someone who is using the monthly payment can/resume pause the payment at any moment. And we cannot pause a Steam key...

If/when there would be the possibility to do so, we would of course provide Steam keys for monthly payments as well!

PS: regarding "owning" the software, most of our users are happy about it, even if it's so 1999 ;) This is why the monthly payment is not a subscription model, but more a "rent-to-own" model.

Cheers,
Nico

Yeah, I think a lot of people would agree with you, but I wonder the percentage. Since we're paying $20/month (like a sub), for 16 months (unless we opt to pay in full at anytime), it "feels" like a sub model. Sure, we have no obligation to upgrade every year, but we'll be sure to miss out on a lot of awesome new features and stay current with support.

So in my way of thinking, I know that everytime a new Live Version comes out, I'll be on it, and have to upgrade (want to upgrade), however, let's think about it like Autodesk/Adobe subs now...

I am paying let's say $240 a year for Maya LT ($20/month), but that guarantees me all the updates and software until I stop my sub (which I wouldn't if I wanted to keep using my software), on top of Photoshop's, I think it's $50/month for CC (or $10 for just Photoshop), but again, guaranteed updates throughout the years as long as I keep subbed.

Sure, at 16 months or $320, I keep the current Substance Live (which would be the older version when it was paid off) as my own...but I would definitely rather have the updates/upgrades as they came out rather than owning my software, especially since at the one year mark I am at $240.

That is just my two sense, although I am inclined to think a lot of others would agree if they actually did the math. You are still technically getting your money every month, you just aren't making that extra upgrade charge with the sub model. Because we aren't required to finish off the current Live balance before upgrading. But who knows... I am just typing as I think about it.

Currently how it works is that we will only be able to apply 50%(?!) of what we've paid you guys for the current version to upgrade to the future version, correct? 

I guess making sure that it's more spelled out in the Live FAQ (which BTW...is extremely hard to find on your front page) so everyone knows what they should be expecting for future (annual) upgrades, before they buy the software.

Thanks!


Sure, at 16 months or $320, I keep the current Substance Live (which would be the older version when it was paid off) as my own...but I would definitely rather have the updates/upgrades as they came out rather than owning my software, especially since at the one year mark I am at $240.

That is just my two sense, although I am inclined to think a lot of others would agree if they actually did the math.
Thanks!

As Allegorithmic doesn't extra charge for the "rent to own" system (compared to an hypothetic pure renting system), I have to politely disagree on the "maths" part :

rent to own (after a while) = (softwares + updates+ extra) + you own the software
renting only (after a while)=  (softwares + updates+ extra)

(rent to own) - (renting only) = you own the software

And that's the only difference, so if they do the maths, 100% of people would prefer the rent to own system.

"guaranteed updates throughout the years as long as I keep subbed" are true for substance live as well so it can't be an argument.

There are small studios, or independant people that sometimes have to cut in their spending: with the "rent to own" system, they can hold their suscription for a while, relying on the version they already own : they may not have the last updates, but at least they can still work. With a rent only system they cannot work anymore and has no choice but paying.

Once again, I still agree that it would be nice if  Valve could support this option.

As long as you pay the monthly fees, you get all the upgrades. When a major upgrade comes out, you will get it if you are paying the 19.90$ per month.

Nico
Director of Product Management & COO