Allegorithmic is joining the Adobe family (Part2)

[LAdair]

"We are scared to lose perpetual licenses because Adobe does not use perpetual licenses"
Edit: if you have a perpetual license, you will keep it, it's your.

Hey Vincent, I'm just having a hard time believing (in a good way) because I own a perpetual license and I love this software till death. So just to final double check, (anyone can reply to this), since I'm a perpetual license holder I get to keep using the software, of course, it's going to be outdated as soon as I am out of the one year update program right?

Thanks!

I know Vincent has already answered your question, but I'd like to add, I have Adobe CS6 Master Collection, perpetual license, and the programs I use continue to work. (On Win7 x64 and Win10 x64.) Adobe has never tried to cripple the software, nor have I ever had Adobe try to strong arm me into signing up for CC.

I hope this reassures you, (and others,) about your perpetual license(s) for Allegorithmic software.

[ArtisanS]

"We are scared to lose perpetual licenses because Adobe does not use perpetual licenses"
Edit: if you have a perpetual license, you will keep it, it's your.

Hey Vincent, I'm just having a hard time believing (in a good way) because I own a perpetual license and I love this software till death. So just to final double check, (anyone can reply to this), since I'm a perpetual license holder I get to keep using the software, of course, it's going to be outdated as soon as I am out of the one year update program right?

Thanks!

I know Vincent has already answered your question, but I'd like to add, I have Adobe CS6 Master Collection, perpetual license, and the programs I use continue to work. (On Win7 x64 and Win10 x64.) Adobe has never tried to cripple the software, nor have I ever had Adobe try to strong arm me into signing up for CC.

I hope this reassures you, (and others,) about your perpetual license(s) for Allegorithmic software.

All true L'Adair, my dad uses Lightroom 5 and it runs and runs and runs....until he has to update his computer for a newer one. Since I doubt it he will have an install file (nope I asked) somewhere stashed save and sound. That I have.....on multiple places, disks and media (and OS-ses). What I'm worried about are dependencies. What when I buy a new videocard (lets say a RTX2080 TI) would that baby still pay ball with 2018.3, somehow I would hope so....or I'll have to take my business elsewhere. Or a new driver for my old card is not compatible anymore.....there can be pitfalls.

And to Vincent. on the same note, I upgraded to perpetual last thursday and have a maintenance date till 3-2-2019, so no year extra support and updates for me. Not that I care, since I will be (no doubt painfully since I loved using it, even with all it's shortcommings) fasing out Substance out of my pipeline, but I just wonder why.....

And to Adobe:
-  I would love to see some PS features in Substance Painter to make it more Painterly. I checked out 3D Coat and loved thier color pallete right away.

-  Brushes should save themselves during a session and on a project basis without me asking to. Countless times I needed to rebuild a brush just to make some small correction. And I don't wanna clutter my desktop with thousansds of brushes I don't need (anymore).

- Revise masking so a mask is a mask is a mask. When you mask a material you have to change settings for most of the underlying layers, that is okay the first time but when you make really complex materials....not so much.

- Learn to stack materials....thes color ID thingy is a lot of work te set up (maybe that is a Blender thing). I used Gimp (oops) and exported to png transparancy with alpha to make stacks of tha materials and blend and mask them into one set of texture files. You sort of invented this procedure so integrate it into Painter, please.....

- Make choices persistent....having to set the save to directory is no fun at all for every item you texture. Changing formats all the time is (direct X and open GL for instance) no fun either.

- 4K screens are on the rise........I need glasses in front of my glasses to see the tiny fonts SP is using....SD is great....so loose the engine you have written SP in with all it's limitations, C++ or C#, arn't that bad.

So after the smoke has cleared what remains. Hope ((c) Leia Organa (Lucasfilm, Disney)). Nothing more but also nothing less. For now I cool with all the limitations.....if some of the points I brought up are solved and Adobe shows that it knows how to handle a product like SP/SD I may return. If it's stacked in the CC, I won't no matter what.


Greets

[bwcszark]

Vincent I so love the idea of having Photoshop brushes inside SP, see another positive thought/idea. Keep em coming.

[LAdair]

"We are scared to lose perpetual licenses because Adobe does not use perpetual licenses"
Edit: if you have a perpetual license, you will keep it, it's your.

Hey Vincent, I'm just having a hard time believing (in a good way) because I own a perpetual license and I love this software till death. So just to final double check, (anyone can reply to this), since I'm a perpetual license holder I get to keep using the software, of course, it's going to be outdated as soon as I am out of the one year update program right?

Thanks!

I know Vincent has already answered your question, but I'd like to add, I have Adobe CS6 Master Collection, perpetual license, and the programs I use continue to work. (On Win7 x64 and Win10 x64.) Adobe has never tried to cripple the software, nor have I ever had Adobe try to strong arm me into signing up for CC.

I hope this reassures you, (and others,) about your perpetual license(s) for Allegorithmic software.

All true L'Adair, my dad uses Lightroom 5 and it runs and runs and runs....until he has to update his computer for a newer one. Since I doubt it he will have an install file (nope I asked) somewhere stashed save and sound. That I have.....on multiple places, disks and media (and OS-ses). What I'm worried about are dependencies. What when I buy a new videocard (lets say a RTX2080 TI) would that baby still pay ball with 2018.3, somehow I would hope so....or I'll have to take my business elsewhere. Or a new driver for my old card is not compatible anymore.....there can be pitfalls.

While I have the Master Collection, I don't have everything installed. Graphics and Video programs. Bridge. Acrobat. I use Photoshop far more than any of the others combined. I bought a new computer in Oct'16 just for 3D, with a GTX 1080. I deactivated and uninstalled everything from the computer I retired and turned around and installed them all on the new computer with zero problems. (And that's with files I downloaded from Adobe when CS6 was released. I have copies on both computers, but I really should back those up to DVD!)

I haven't seen any issues running the software with the 1080. Of course, the RTX line uses a new architecture, but the GTX series went to Pascal from Maxwell… and I expect Maxwell is several generations past the time CS6 was current software.

(I know what you mean about drivers, though. I have a scanner that hasn't had drivers updated since Win'98. It is a far better scanner than any I've bought since, but due to lack of support, it's little more than a boat anchor now.)

[yvo_Gotz]

Lets stop beating around the bush here.

You can't tell us anything about any upcomming changing in payment because they aren't "clear". This is simply a fancy way of saying they're in negotiation. We all know a price increase will come, the question is more in what way. They have to turn a profit at some point, and your current pricing point is based on being your own entity.

The most profitable way for Adobe would be to intergrate it into CC and increase the price on that. Its not like any of our businesses can change an intergrated pipeline in that short time. Not that there is any competition to begin with. I would also not be suprised to find a CC 3D artist licence that is also far more expensive than your current model.

Adobe are not the leaders of the industry btw, you, The Foundry and countless other are. In fact, most conventions I go to Adobe might have some of the biggest booths but most proffesionals talk about what good replacements are for Adobe products.

At the end of the day I just simply don't want to pay for products I don't need (Adobe stuff) while still maintaining updated Allegorithmic products. Or if it can be avoided at all, use Creative Crap.

Btw their current pricing is 4x what yours is for indie devs.
Single program CC licence is 24 euro/m
all 4 Allegorithmic products are 24 euro/m

[Vincent Gault]

Lets stop beating around the bush here.

You can't tell us anything about any upcomming changing in payment because they aren't "clear". This is simply a fancy way of saying they're in negotiation. We all know a price increase will come, the question is more in what way. They have to turn a profit at some point, and your current pricing point is based on being your own entity.

The most profitable way for Adobe would be to intergrate it into CC and increase the price on that. Its not like any of our businesses can change an intergrated pipeline in that short time. Not that there is any competition to begin with. I would also not be suprised to find a CC 3D artist licence that is also far more expensive than your current model.

Adobe are not the leaders of the industry btw, you, The Foundry and countless other are. In fact, most conventions I go to Adobe might have some of the biggest booths but most proffesionals talk about what good replacements are for Adobe products.

At the end of the day I just simply don't want to pay for products I don't need (Adobe stuff) while still maintaining updated Allegorithmic products. Or if it can be avoided at all, use Creative Crap.

Btw their current pricing is 4x what yours is for indie devs.
Single program CC licence is 24 euro/m
all 4 Allegorithmic products are 24 euro/m

Apparently, you have more info than I do: if you have the next lottery numbers as well, I would be interested 
More seriously, this thread is less about speculation and more about trying to answer what we can answer.

Many scenarios have already been elaborated, about which decisions will be taken, and what the consequences would be.
As said previously, except agreeing to disagree on these topics, there is nothing to answer.

Thanks for taking to the time to share you point of view though

[yvo_Gotz]

Lets stop beating around the bush here.

You can't tell us anything about any upcomming changing in payment because they aren't "clear". This is simply a fancy way of saying they're in negotiation. We all know a price increase will come, the question is more in what way. They have to turn a profit at some point, and your current pricing point is based on being your own entity.

The most profitable way for Adobe would be to intergrate it into CC and increase the price on that. Its not like any of our businesses can change an intergrated pipeline in that short time. Not that there is any competition to begin with. I would also not be suprised to find a CC 3D artist licence that is also far more expensive than your current model.

Adobe are not the leaders of the industry btw, you, The Foundry and countless other are. In fact, most conventions I go to Adobe might have some of the biggest booths but most proffesionals talk about what good replacements are for Adobe products.

At the end of the day I just simply don't want to pay for products I don't need (Adobe stuff) while still maintaining updated Allegorithmic products. Or if it can be avoided at all, use Creative Crap.

Btw their current pricing is 4x what yours is for indie devs.
Single program CC licence is 24 euro/m
all 4 Allegorithmic products are 24 euro/m

Apparently, you have more info than I do: if you have the next lottery numbers as well, I would be interested 
More seriously, this thread is less about speculation and more about trying to answer what we can answer.

Many scenarios have already been elaborated, about which decisions will be taken, and what the consequences would be.
As said previously, except agreeing to disagree on these topics, there is nothing to answer.

Thanks for taking to the time to share you point of view though

Seems a bit condescending. No magic involved here though.

No and Yes are pretty clear awnsers and not giving an awnser creates more unrest. Not hard to figure out that they'd still be talking about how to deal with subscription, prices, etc.

And as for the price increase. Prices of anything rarely get lowered, if for some miracle the production cost decreased then the proffit margins would just be higher. Because why change a price people are already willing to pay? But with the increased logistics of Adobe and (probably) their help to intergrate more with each other, it would again, be a miracle if the prices even stayed the same. Because at the end of the day, all costs MUST be accounted for in the final price of the product, thats just business 101.

Now, I would love to know if the prices would change or if the subscription model is gonna change. But those are "not clear yet" so I already have my awnser there. Just getting sick of the PR talk while I'm trying to find out if I have to prepare for a large change in my pipeline, just give an actual awnser instead of having to read between the lines.

[Jeremie Noguer]

But with the increased logistics of Adobe and (probably) their help to intergrate more with each other, it would again, be a miracle if the prices even stayed the same

Miracles do exist

But back on the point, we can't say yet because there are many many ways we can do things, it's not as simple as raising the price or not, or integrating in CC or not, and once a course of action is set and offers are announced, you can't really go back.
So we're being extra careful to find the right balance, the right offer and the right timing, and it might end up that nothing changes.. there are plenty of good options on the table and we're trying to find the ones that will be the best for everyone.

[Michael_12K]

Lets stop beating around the bush here.

You can't tell us anything about any upcomming changing in payment because they aren't "clear". This is simply a fancy way of saying they're in negotiation. We all know a price increase will come, the question is more in what way. They have to turn a profit at some point, and your current pricing point is based on being your own entity.

The most profitable way for Adobe would be to intergrate it into CC and increase the price on that. Its not like any of our businesses can change an intergrated pipeline in that short time. Not that there is any competition to begin with. I would also not be suprised to find a CC 3D artist licence that is also far more expensive than your current model.

Adobe are not the leaders of the industry btw, you, The Foundry and countless other are. In fact, most conventions I go to Adobe might have some of the biggest booths but most proffesionals talk about what good replacements are for Adobe products.

At the end of the day I just simply don't want to pay for products I don't need (Adobe stuff) while still maintaining updated Allegorithmic products. Or if it can be avoided at all, use Creative Crap.

Btw their current pricing is 4x what yours is for indie devs.
Single program CC licence is 24 euro/m
all 4 Allegorithmic products are 24 euro/m

Apparently, you have more info than I do: if you have the next lottery numbers as well, I would be interested 
More seriously, this thread is less about speculation and more about trying to answer what we can answer.

Many scenarios have already been elaborated, about which decisions will be taken, and what the consequences would be.
As said previously, except agreeing to disagree on these topics, there is nothing to answer.

Thanks for taking to the time to share you point of view though

Seems a bit condescending. No magic involved here though.

No and Yes are pretty clear awnsers and not giving an awnser creates more unrest. Not hard to figure out that they'd still be talking about how to deal with subscription, prices, etc.

And as for the price increase. Prices of anything rarely get lowered, if for some miracle the production cost decreased then the proffit margins would just be higher. Because why change a price people are already willing to pay? But with the increased logistics of Adobe and (probably) their help to intergrate more with each other, it would again, be a miracle if the prices even stayed the same. Because at the end of the day, all costs MUST be accounted for in the final price of the product, thats just business 101.

Now, I would love to know if the prices would change or if the subscription model is gonna change. But those are "not clear yet" so I already have my awnser there. Just getting sick of the PR talk while I'm trying to find out if I have to prepare for a large change in my pipeline, just give an actual awnser instead of having to read between the lines.

Agree! CONDESCENDING all the way - as I have already noted in earlier posts. This Vincent aka "Allegorithmic representative" seems very full of himself. Obviously, this is how Adobegorithmic deals with customers. Total lack of self-reflection and respect.

..and Mr. Gault, no, you are not funny.

[Vincent Gault]

Lets stop beating around the bush here.

You can't tell us anything about any upcomming changing in payment because they aren't "clear". This is simply a fancy way of saying they're in negotiation. We all know a price increase will come, the question is more in what way. They have to turn a profit at some point, and your current pricing point is based on being your own entity.

The most profitable way for Adobe would be to intergrate it into CC and increase the price on that. Its not like any of our businesses can change an intergrated pipeline in that short time. Not that there is any competition to begin with. I would also not be suprised to find a CC 3D artist licence that is also far more expensive than your current model.

Adobe are not the leaders of the industry btw, you, The Foundry and countless other are. In fact, most conventions I go to Adobe might have some of the biggest booths but most proffesionals talk about what good replacements are for Adobe products.

At the end of the day I just simply don't want to pay for products I don't need (Adobe stuff) while still maintaining updated Allegorithmic products. Or if it can be avoided at all, use Creative Crap.

Btw their current pricing is 4x what yours is for indie devs.
Single program CC licence is 24 euro/m
all 4 Allegorithmic products are 24 euro/m

Apparently, you have more info than I do: if you have the next lottery numbers as well, I would be interested 
More seriously, this thread is less about speculation and more about trying to answer what we can answer.

Many scenarios have already been elaborated, about which decisions will be taken, and what the consequences would be.
As said previously, except agreeing to disagree on these topics, there is nothing to answer.

Thanks for taking to the time to share you point of view though

Seems a bit condescending. No magic involved here though.

No and Yes are pretty clear answers and not giving an awnser creates more unrest. Not hard to figure out that they'd still be talking about how to deal with subscription, prices, etc.

And as for the price increase. Prices of anything rarely get lowered, if for some miracle the production cost decreased then the proffit margins would just be higher. Because why change a price people are already willing to pay? But with the increased logistics of Adobe and (probably) their help to intergrate more with each other, it would again, be a miracle if the prices even stayed the same. Because at the end of the day, all costs MUST be accounted for in the final price of the product, thats just business 101.

Now, I would love to know if the prices would change or if the subscription model is gonna change. But those are "not clear yet" so I already have my answer there. Just getting sick of the PR talk while I'm trying to find out if I have to prepare for a large change in my pipeline, just give an actual answer instead of having to read between the lines.

Agree! CONDESCENDING all the way - as I have already noted in earlier posts. This Vincent aka "Allegorithmic representative" seems very full of himself. Obviously, this is how Adobegorithmic deals with customers. Total lack of self-reflection and respect.

..and Mr. Gault, no, you are not funny.

Sorry if you don't find me funny (I do my best)

And sorry if it looks condescending: as I said before I just want to avoid discussions based on speculations, as it will go nowhere.

@Michael_12K on the 9 messages you wrote on this forum since you joined, 8 are related to this topic,

1 telling us that you don't trust us what we say
3 of them to tell us how condescending we are
1 of them explaining that the World &  France is going to shit, and sharing your point of view on why Seb took this decision to join Adobe (spoiler:$$$)
1 video showcasing why Adobe is bad
1 one explaining your point of view on how thing should work (this one is constructive)


It clearly demonstrates that you are angry/disappointed by the decision we took, and it's obviously your right. but do these messages bring any clues or answers to the discussion? That's why, at the risk of looking condescending because of my bad french humor (sorry @yvo_Gotz that was not the goal), I prefer to tell people to focus on questions/facts rather than speculations (we already had them all in part 1). And once again please accept that we don't have all the answers yet

[bwcszark]

well said Vincent

[branflakes]

What is the status of the Python API in the future ?

Will it still be supported, or will it be restricted to a commercial license only ?

[Nicolas LIATTI]

What is the status of the Python API in the future ?

Will it still be supported, or will it be restricted to a commercial license only ?

The Python API is still supported and in active development. Expect new cool stuffs about it in the coming months

[LAdair]

well said Vincent

+1

The bad thing about speculation is we end up worrying about the worst that can happen.

The good thing about speculation is, after worrying about the worst that can happen, we are relieved when the reality is not so bad.

(My attempt to add a bit of levity to the conversation.  )

As frustrating as it is to be in the dark, it makes sense to me the Allegorithmic team doesn't want to give out details of the current internal conversation, whether or not there is a legal impediment to saying anything—And if that internal conversation isn't going in favor of the current Allegorithmic customers, I hope it goes on for ages!

I'm content with the firm answer that our Indie subscriptions can and will be available to convert to perpetual licenses for $49 after completing the 12 month requirement. As a hobbiest, and a senior on a fixed income, I'm happy this option is still available to me.

[sfthewolf]

I appreciate the fact this new thread has some of the answers promised. on a personal level it's worth adding I do appreciate all the hard work and great software you've made over the years and I'm sorry that the people reading this forum are stuck taking the flak for corporate decisions. I and others have posted while upset in these threads and I recognize it's just a day job for you and you don't deserve that anger