Author Topic: Allegorithmic is joining the Adobe family (part 1)  (Read 102089 times)

just hope Adobe put in a perpetual option. If this joins the cloud, we're out of here....which is very very sad  :'(

The amount of money made by leasing software usage rights doesn't make any shareholder want to even consider perpetual options. This is why bigger companies are all on subscription plans. At this level it's all about how much cash can potentially be generated, not about what users feel are the best options for them.

If one company can essentially own a monopoly within said industry, then you're forced into their subscription plans. This is why you see bigger companies buying out smaller companies that are moving very fast in technology, and their respective space. It's a great business move to do this from a shareholder' perspective.

I would be shocked if Adobe allows a perpetual option once fully integrated into the Creative Cloud Suite.

We totally understand your fears, and we were expecting such reactions.
We chose to go and work with Adobe (nobody or nothing forced us to do this) because we truly believe this is the best move to still help rock the 3d world. We obviously talked a lot with Adobe people before doing this move, and we know that it's now our job to show you why we did it. We don't expect you to take any words for granting, this is by our actions that we will show you why we did it :)

In the meantime, you can read the blogpost from our CEO, explaining his feelings about it: https://medium.com/@sebastien.deguy/https-medium-com-sebastien-deguy-my-peter-jackson-moment-7dd64ba1d1f1

The question is, did this choice happen because you needed to merge for the benefit of your customer base? Or did this happen as per the post below which was strictly about meeting quarterly targets?



https://polycount.com/discussion/208172/adobe-substance

This merge happened because we chose it, and we believe in the project for which Adobe gave us the keys.
We've had lots of offers in the last years, and we decided to go with Adobe because we truly believe in it.

And we now have to prove you why we did this :)

I do appreciate your reply. It would help a lot of people if we could know exactly what benefits we're going to see from this merger. We all love Substance and the negativity in this thread is solely based on not wanting to see something we love using day to day go away, or become priced in a way that smaller studios cannot afford the subscription fees. I already know people are going to say what has been green lighted, but these are all valid concerns especially when Adobe has touched other companies less than desirable results have occurred.

If Adobe allows Allegorithmic to continue doing what they do best, and keep the packages at a reasonable rate I'm sure most people will be fine, but with news about merging into Creative Cloud, well... that doesn't seem too promising.

We obviously cannot say much yet, and today the only thing we can say is that if you trusted us in the past, please trust us, even just a little bit, when we say we feel it's the best chance to go on improving the 3d world. And we will prove you why we did this.
Head of Product Management

In the meantime you can go fuck yourself while you read about how everyone else feels about it: https://forum.allegorithmic.com/index.php/topic,27494.0.html

I love you.

We totally understand your fears, and we were expecting such reactions.
We chose to go and work with Adobe (nobody or nothing forced us to do this) because we truly believe this is the best move to still help rock the 3d world. We obviously talked a lot with Adobe people before doing this move, and we know that it's now our job to show you why we did it. We don't expect you to take any words for granting, this is by our actions that we will show you why we did it :)


Thank you for your comment. It can't be nice having to read the numerous negative posts. I don't doubt the intentions of the team to keep striving to bring us great products, as you have done for years, and I truly do wish the team all the best and continued success going forward. I want your products to continue to go from strength to strength, because they are so awesome.

However, the problem is, and what my fear the most it,  you don't have the final say on how anything goes anymore. You no longer have that luxury. Adobe is your boss. That's the reality. And you were Adobe's competitor. My guess is they bought you purely so they could eliminate that competition and retain the lionshare of the market in their own name, not for some goal of helping Allegorithmic software continue with the vision of the founder(s), keeping the team together or whatever else.   You guys may have all the best intentions in the world, and I believe you do, but if you don't have total control (which you don't now), then you can't be sure of, or promise, anything...

Truth to be told, Adobe had been a major investor in Allegorithmic and a board member for 2 years now. So every major things that happened during the last 2 years, Adobe agreed and even pushed for it.

And as you may noticed, we didn't promise anything. We didn't announce anything. Because indeed, the only thing we can do is now fight to prove you why we did this.
Head of Product Management

Time to learn Mari.

Can't afford $2000 for that. Yikes.

And what? We pay for a software not becouse we can not pirate it down in 10 sec, we pay for it becouse we wanna support it's developmant, becouse we TRUST in their development team, becouse we TRUST  in their leadership, becouse WE TRUST IN THEIR DECISIONS.
The relationship between a software company and thie community is the most important factor of their business imo.

I have friends that has huge software parks and they pay the most as donation to Blender : thats how it works.

Not sure what you're driving at. I've paid about $500 for two years of Substance, $250 at a time. I can't afford a $2000 payment for a license of Mari no matter how long it lasts.

I don't pirate software. I support development, but $2000 is too expensive for me.

You won't be paying $250 anymore, you fool. There's a damn clear reason why all 6 mentions of licensing this past day had "For now" "currently" "planned" etc tagged on. It's heading to the Creative Cloud, where you will be paying $21 each for Designer and Painter. So hello $500 a year, or you'll be paying $53 a month for the Creative Cloud Suite, so $636 a year. And these licenses are NOT perpetual like the $250 you mentioned paying. You stop, you lose the software. Period.

In 3 years you've reached the $2000 price tag of Mari, which you'd own forever with that purchase, and the price will just keep adding up and up. In 6 years you're $4000 in and still own nothing, cancel and no more Substance for you.

Also note that $2000 is only the initial purchase, it's less than $500 a year to renew the maintenance if you so choose to want the new features, which is already going to be the price of the Creative Cloud Substance Suite, so anyone with a budget is better off eating the upfront cost of Mari and own the software forever while having the option to renew a year of updates for the same price Substance will cost.
Last Edit: January 23, 2019, 10:51:17 pm

Well this is unfortunate.

But here's a link to a Blender addon being developed that makes texturing in Blender much closer to what SP does with layers.

https://blenderartists.org/t/bats-material-editing-with-layers/1141382

It's certainly not as powerful as Substance, but hopefully within the next year or so Blender will beef up their procedural texturing and painting capabilities.

We totally understand your fears, and we were expecting such reactions.
We chose to go and work with Adobe (nobody or nothing forced us to do this) because we truly believe this is the best move to still help rock the 3d world. We obviously talked a lot with Adobe people before doing this move, and we know that it's now our job to show you why we did it. We don't expect you to take any words for granting, this is by our actions that we will show you why we did it :)

Dear Nicolas, I'm really-really sorry but I can't help saying the following: if you truly believe in your words - you either too naive or too foolish, don't know (hopefully not greedy). And Allegorithmic is done. Just done! The problem is not about your best intentions and plans - but about the insanely great probability that what you've said will never happen - just keeping all Adobe's background and decisions in mind. You are no longer of control over your company, no matter what you say, you have bosses over bosses over you, shareholders and so on. And you've actually jeopardized the content pipelines of many studios who trusted you and who invested a lot into making their content creating based on substance. Not to mention, you've seriously undermined the community loyalty today. Time will show, but still this is the worst possible news from Allegorithmic one could ever expect.

UPD: And it's really sorry to read how proud you're to be kinda chosen by Adobe. This is just low self-esteem! You had genuinely masterminds in your team, incredibly talented persons! All these 21000 of Adobe a$$h**es are just nothing compared to your 140 guys! omg!
Last Edit: January 23, 2019, 10:52:50 pm

We totally understand your fears, and we were expecting such reactions.
We chose to go and work with Adobe (nobody or nothing forced us to do this) because we truly believe this is the best move to still help rock the 3d world. We obviously talked a lot with Adobe people before doing this move, and we know that it's now our job to show you why we did it. We don't expect you to take any words for granting, this is by our actions that we will show you why we did it :)


Thank you for your comment. It can't be nice having to read the numerous negative posts. I don't doubt the intentions of the team to keep striving to bring us great products, as you have done for years, and I truly do wish the team all the best and continued success going forward. I want your products to continue to go from strength to strength, because they are so awesome.

However, the problem is, and what my fear the most it,  you don't have the final say on how anything goes anymore. You no longer have that luxury. Adobe is your boss. That's the reality. And you were Adobe's competitor. My guess is they bought you purely so they could eliminate that competition and retain the lionshare of the market in their own name, not for some goal of helping Allegorithmic software continue with the vision of the founder(s), keeping the team together or whatever else.   You guys may have all the best intentions in the world, and I believe you do, but if you don't have total control (which you don't now), then you can't be sure of, or promise, anything...

Truth to be told, Adobe had been a major investor in Allegorithmic and a board member for 2 years now. So every major things that happened during the last 2 years, Adobe agreed and even pushed for it.

And as you may noticed, we didn't promise anything. We didn't announce anything. Because indeed, the only thing we can do is now fight to prove you why we did this.

That would include your licensing change last year. Thanks for inadvertently confirming Adobes plans for Substance, buddy.

Very sad news.

I wonder what will happen to GNU/Linux versions of Substance software? If Substance is to be incorporated into Creative Cloud, which doesn't even have a Linux port of its client, then considering the fact that Adobe's attitude towards porting its software to Linux was always very uncooperative over the years despite numerous requests from their userbase, I fail to see how those versions will survive.

We obviously cannot say much yet, and today the only thing we can say is that if you trusted us in the past, please trust us, even just a little bit, when we say we feel it's the best chance to go on improving the 3d world. And we will prove you why we did this.

With all the respect: you can't be serious, right?

This is Adobe we are talking about, it's not that they became what they are by being nice to people or their costumers. They care about money and shareholders, period.

How it's even possible someone of you expect the community to trust something like this, it's ridiculous.

If Adobe kills Linux support they kill Substances presence in VFX. Game design +VFX is a much smaller market than what the rest of Adobe exploits so I do actually doubt they will kill Linux unless it will make a quarterly report look better. I am fully expecting Linux support to lag behind others though.

I hope your licenses will remain at the same price, especially for indies because it allows a lot of people to have access to your software ..... If Adobe makes the same price on Allegorithmic as on their photoshop most of people will not be able to buy it. I do not hide that I am very worried.

We obviously cannot say much yet, and today the only thing we can say is that if you trusted us in the past, please trust us, even just a little bit, when we say we feel it's the best chance to go on improving the 3d world. And we will prove you why we did this.

With all the respect: you can't be serious, right?

This is Adobe we are talking about, it's not that they became what they are by being nice to people or their costumers. They care about money and shareholders, period.

How it's even possible someone of you expect the community to trust something like this, it's ridiculous.

As we said, Adobe has been an investor in Allegorithmic for 2 years, and a member of the board. So every major decisions that happened in the last years (all new products, hires, etc.), Adobe was part of it.
If you don't trust that's fine, we will just show you with actions why we did this. In the meantime anyway nothing changes ;)
Head of Product Management

We obviously cannot say much yet, and today the only thing we can say is that if you trusted us in the past, please trust us, even just a little bit, when we say we feel it's the best chance to go on improving the 3d world. And we will prove you why we did this.

With all the respect: you can't be serious, right?

This is Adobe we are talking about, it's not that they became what they are by being nice to people or their costumers. They care about money and shareholders, period.

How it's even possible someone of you expect the community to trust something like this, it's ridiculous.

They are Adobe now. That is why

I've been doing 3D Graphics since 1999. I've seen enough of this BS over the years to know I don't want to stick around to see the results of your decision, Allegorithmic. I really don't want to have any part of it or Adobe.

I never liked the Adobe approach to business, but when all my personal details (and 38 million others) were hacked from Adobe Cloud due to their lacklustre security without so much as an appology I dropped them like a hot stone and will NEVER be going back.

So I'll stick with you for the next few weeks whilst I find an alternative then it's adios. I'm not investing any more time or £ in this.

Jeez. So disapointing.