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Messages - Xathian

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1
I was using Designer last week flawlessly, but today I launch it and everything is broken. Every menu comes up very slowly, all the 3D preview meshes are displayed as multiple planes, here's the cube:



Using the colour dropper for any reason locks up my PC entirely (mouse still moves though)

I tried updating and fully reinstalling and nothing fixes it.

2
Yeah you'll need to just go back to Mari. Painting across sets has been "in the works" for longer than Avatar 2 and given the now slowed to a crawl pace of feature updates (Hello Painter 2019.2, big summer update with zero new features just a speed improvement on baking so it's finally as fast as Marmoset has been since 2017) I would not hold my breath for this feature ever happening, especially given the track record on updates from their parent company.

3
This is absolutely insanity causing, all your other software packages can have ctrl+z undo your previous change to sliders, in Alchemist it doesn't, if you drop down a filter and change 10 sliders then press ctrl+z (out of habit especially) for a quick before/after check you will instead just undo the entire filter being added and have to redo all the values again.

Also there needs to be a UI indicator that a project is saving/was saved (bottom right of Painter shows this). Get paranoid my ctrl+s wasn't registered during a layer calculation.

4
At a time of change, the people at Allegorithmic needed your support but you all let them down.

Yeah no, the exact opposite happened, they let us down. Brown nosing will get you no where.

5
Looks like Gahdmor on Reddit just accidentally let slip Substances move to Creative Cloud. They've been trying really hard to dodge the question since the announcement but when someone complained about having to pay $60 for CC he replied that you could just choose Substance rather than the entire thing. Cute that they keep claiming that nothing is decided yet and they're still working on it but it's obvious it's all decided already



Don't listen to a word these Staff posters are saying, they're lying through their teeth.

6
1) It makes Painter look easy to use
There's no fast mouse movements or anything too complex going on. It makes the viewer think "hey, I could easily stamp my logo onto a 3D product! That's awesome!"

THIS IS NOT A GOOD THING. We are using and want PROFESSIONAL software, not Adobe Stock 3D Asset Stamp and Post Instagram bait.

I have to point out one very strange thing going on in this thread. On the one hand we have calls like this for professional software, on the other we have probably the same people complaining that CC rental scheme is too expensive... at 10 bucks a month for Photoshop. I'd say at least pick one, because both is pretty silly.

It's $10 a month in 12 month commitments, cancel early and you pay every remaining month of that year, also you never own the software and pay forever and ever and ever, also it requires you install a bloated, so poorly made it's borderline malware CC launcher.

Painter + Designer + B2M with Substance Source credits are $20 combined, they can be cancelled at any time without commitment fees, you can buy perpetual licenses or convert a 12 month rental license into a perpetual and each one is a standalone program installed from its own .exe with no bloated launcher.

They are not comparable in any way.

Still for anyone proclaiming they need professional software, 10 bucks a month is ridiculously cheap. No matter how long you pay it, Photoshop for 10 bucks a month is a steal.

No, the only steal happening on this business model is the theft Adobe is committing by making you pay forever and never own anything. You're not pointing out anything, you're being a contrarian for the sake of standing out online.

It's cute that you keep hanging onto Photoshop too, and ignore the $20.99 price tag for everything else they sell, all individually. You won't pay $20 for the Substance Suite, you'll pay $20.99 for B2M, $20.99 for Designer and $20.99 for Painter.

Just like you have to today if you want Premiere + After Effects + Audition as a full video creation suite.

7
Okay, Thanks for the info, Jeremie. I just hope they will be available as they were - downloadable .rpm packages, and not part of the bloated CC.

Substance is moving to the Creative Cloud, Adobe made this abundantly clear.

https://theblog.adobe.com/adobe-acquires-allegorithmic-substance-3D-gaming/

8
1) It makes Painter look easy to use
There's no fast mouse movements or anything too complex going on. It makes the viewer think "hey, I could easily stamp my logo onto a 3D product! That's awesome!"

THIS IS NOT A GOOD THING. We are using and want PROFESSIONAL software, not Adobe Stock 3D Asset Stamp and Post Instagram bait.

I have to point out one very strange thing going on in this thread. On the one hand we have calls like this for professional software, on the other we have probably the same people complaining that CC rental scheme is too expensive... at 10 bucks a month for Photoshop. I'd say at least pick one, because both is pretty silly.

It's $10 a month in 12 month commitments, cancel early and you pay every remaining month of that year, also you never own the software and pay forever and ever and ever, also it requires you install a bloated, so poorly made it's borderline malware CC launcher.

Painter + Designer + B2M with Substance Source credits are $20 combined, they can be cancelled at any time without commitment fees, you can buy perpetual licenses or convert a 12 month rental license into a perpetual and each one is a standalone program installed from its own .exe with no bloated launcher.

They are not comparable in any way.

9
Allegorithmic,

What do you have to say to all the commissioned artists, indie developers and hobbyists who propped up your product and got it pushed into production pipelines all over the industry to bring you to  where you are now?

What do you say to the people who will not be able to afford your product once its been re-priced and re-branded for the Adobe CC lineup?

I don't want to seem ungrateful, we are super grateful to the indie community, but I'd like us to be given props where due.

Indie developpers and hobbyists didn't push Substance into production studios. We did, by tirelessely vising every studio on earth over and over again for years and work them until we convinced them that these were the right tools for the job. The notoriety of the tools then trickled down from studios like Naughty Dog, Treyarch, Turn10, etc. into smaller studios and the indie community at large.
I personnally spent 2 years of my life constantly flying from country to country to present Substance Designer to studios who only swore by Photoshop, and slowly but surely, we changed their minds. And we're not going to abandon them, or the Indie guys, now.

As for the price, if you were able to afford Substance now, you'll be able to afford them in the future, don't worry.

Well you've adapted to the Adobe Corporate Arrogance pretty well.

10
1) It makes Painter look easy to use
There's no fast mouse movements or anything too complex going on. It makes the viewer think "hey, I could easily stamp my logo onto a 3D product! That's awesome!"

THIS IS NOT A GOOD THING. We are using and want PROFESSIONAL software, not Adobe Stock 3D Asset Stamp and Post Instagram bait.

2) It makes Painter look like it's on even-footing with Dimension
I think it's more than likely that the low frame-rate was a conscious decision. If Painter's viewer both looked nicer and ran better than Dimension's, it would reflect poorly on Adobe's own product.

Now this is downright delusional. Come on, man. They made Substance look laggy to make it fair for Dimension? Anyone that cares for 3D already understands that a render is a slow thing, and them trying to hide that shows they aren't marketing towards people who do proper 3D work.

11
I found this. Who knows, they might even make 3D modeling software and become a competitor to Autodesk but as a Blender user I simply don't care.



They won't make 3D software, they'll just buy Maxon. Plus, the LAST thing you should want is them making 3D software, this is a texturing suite, we don't need it to get sidetracked to go on a farce of developing every tool imaginable, that's how you end up with half baked shitty software.

12
they 'have to' say most  heartwarming and cushy things about Adobe products now.
need to do your own research and tests

'You can buy these wonderful models from https://stock.adobe.com/3d-assets and make your designer friends jealous with your renders yeyyy'
My favorites are garlic model and 'LOVE' text.

From the Peter Jackson moment
“Adobe is bringing Allegorithmic on board so that we can, along with the incredible talent at Adobe which has already been working on 3D projects and research, invent the next generation of 3D creative tools, with Substance as a flagship product, but also combining Adobe’s own current 3D initiatives like Adobe Dimension, and more,”

so their priority will never ever be games and films.

It's $30 a month to get 10 assets off that store. Hooo boy the quality you get for the price.

13
Here is adobe's first Allegorithmic promo.

adobe's understanding of Substance is someone trying to stamp 8 holes on a model using a toaster machine as a computer and trying to render it with the garbage called Dimension.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SusZU-o_kds

FUTURE SEEMS BRIGHT!

totally sold out the company who understands Allegorithmic products and its soul.

Good luck trying to explain what 'udim' is to you bosses bosses bossess bosses bossess boss at 134234th meeting.

Adobe trying to be in 3d game, if they try to put their dirty hands on pixologic we need to start a kickstarter campaign to fund the company as much as we can.

Whats up with the 10 FPS video rotations? Did they get a student to make this promo?  ;D ;D ;D

Probably recorded on a $400 laptop as to match the market they're aiming for now with their focus on "Creativity for non-artists".

Where does Adobe Dimension fall into all of this in terms of "Game Development". I've never seen this software as part of any studio workflow before, but who knows... Maybe someone uses this... It's like putting 'Substance' products which are high quality and industry standard and trying to package it with something nobody cares for. You know, the cool kids on the block having a tag along...

Now I might be wrong because I have never heard any reference to Adobe Dimension besides this video with any studio pipeline in games, so I apologize ahead of time if I'm wrong.

Dimension was basically (at least during its beta) a really bare bones free alternative to something like Keyshot, until it exited beta and got a price tag. It was 'okay' I guess, I got a few decent renders out of it. Problem is it's pretty much useless for anyone hobbyist or above, they will do Keyshot, Blender, or IRay renders of their stuff. That video TERRIFIES me because it tells me that Adobe sees Substance as a tool for casual nobodies to fuck around with out of curiosity, to create their newest instagram image that their friends and family can drop a Like on, not a tool for professionals to create to industry leading digital assets.

I've had a nagging doubt in my mind since the announcement that Adobe bought Allegorithmic for 1 real reason, to farm potential patent options out of Substance Designer. Design is, as someone put it early in this thread, a pink diamond. There is NOTHING else out there that offers the same toolset or concept focus. Designer is something that, unlike Painter, can actually have a lot of uses for 2D applications. I fear Adobe bought Allegorithmic so they could dissect it and excavate out every useful, unique feature it has to slap on patents to prevent competition and integrate it into photoshop.

14
Here is adobe's first Allegorithmic promo.

adobe's understanding of Substance is someone trying to stamp 8 holes on a model using a toaster machine as a computer and trying to render it with the garbage called Dimension.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SusZU-o_kds

FUTURE SEEMS BRIGHT!

totally sold out the company who understands Allegorithmic products and its soul.

Good luck trying to explain what 'udim' is to you bosses bosses bossess bosses bossess boss at 134234th meeting.

Adobe trying to be in 3d game, if they try to put their dirty hands on pixologic we need to start a kickstarter campaign to fund the company as much as we can.

Whats up with the 10 FPS video rotations? Did they get a student to make this promo?  ;D ;D ;D

Probably recorded on a $400 laptop as to match the market they're aiming for now with their focus on "Creativity for non-artists".

15
I was thinking the same at some point. If they needed more money to develop some more features and stuff or needed more money for new hires... I'd be willing to pay more... So the perpetual license for Substance Painter which I use is 149$... That's a good price for what you get. I would probably have been able to pay more. Up to 200...230 maybe..  As long as I would know that this is mine, I can use it whenever I want for as long as I want... As was stated... I'm sure like someone said some people might even donate. Some would even jump through hoops of fire as long as it didn't go to Adobe...  If you said: Help us out here, we need more money to take things to the next level, we have to increase prices a bit, we hope you understand, people would probably be fine with that. People want to support an independent company that creates a very good product for a decent price.

Agreed. Now I am speaking for myself here as I know many others have very tight budgets and cannot afford it but for me had Allegorithmic said they either needed to double the rent-to-own and perpetual license costs to continue and stay independent I would have done it with a smile if it kept Adobe away.

I do not want Creative Cloud. I do not want a $60 monthly never ending license with no perpetual that I have to pay cancellation fees to get out of.

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