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Messages - Pluralhalf

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What we see is the 3D industry booming in the upcoming years, and we want to be ready when it happens and bring our ideas/solutions to the table. And reviewing the options/discussing with potential partners, we chose Adobe, because that gave us the trust and the keys to build our vision. We have been in touch with them for the last 2 years, so we are confident with the relationship we can build with them.
Once again we can agree to not agree, but this neither an aggressive takeover, nor a naive decision.

Everything has its price ,you got bigger support in the industry now but you're not independent anymore  .If Adobe thinks that is more money in selling french fry  then Allegorithmic will be selling french fry in the future.
Autodesk killed Softimage, ImageModeler,MatchMover
Microsoft killed TrueSpace.
Adobe killed Mixamo.
Blender was a great surprise to free himself,and now its better than some paid 3d packages.
RIP Allegorithmic, you had a great run,it was a great idea and a better realization. I assume that the technology will be transfered to other Adobe products,some light version will be released in the future for a couple of years, to imitate active development.Its a shame to go out when you're at peak but then you got a bigger price i guess.
OpenSource has no alternative
Adobe Substance Painter,Adobe Substance Designer,,,even the name makes me sick, ...disgusting

Bigger you get more unethical you get and there are messes who wont stand against companies like Adobe. or open their mouth for better world.
when they do, they sell out it seems like
In 2013, Adobes 152 million usernames and poorly-encrypted passwords, plus customers' credit card numbers hacked: class action: it turned out  Adobe's security blunder could rank among the worst in history and "shoddy" security practises lead to the breach.
If i dont remember wrong they gave 6 months free photoshop to the hacked individuals  :D :D :D :D :D
go cheap in every corner.

i promise you sometimes you get yearly updates where they only play with fonts.

in a sensible world Allego acquires Adobe for 100 dollars for their brushes.




2
@musashidan Corporate logo designers need love too ;D

Come on, man. You can do better than that. My questions still stand.

Corporate logo designers and Substance tools in the same conversation? Welcome to Adobe...... ;)

3d is highly specialized area where you spend years just to learn methodology and tools to be able to start creating something plausible. i am assuming adobe is not on the way to educate their current clientele on 3d.
vfx studios are still asking for many tools to be able to integrate substance in their pipelines however its not where the money is, logo designer are where the money is.i think the worry is about
how
this
uploads

and this

free image upload

would be able to supported by same package and same developers (we dont have many people like you guys around), its from as simple as its UI design to either drag and drop logo design texture support or 8K high density mesh UDIM support they obviously both cant be the focus at the same time right?
it will be every day decision for 3d division of adobe
should be working on glorifying dimension, but we already have way better, years ahead solutions for rendering, or should be work on sp's ability to synchronize with proprietary lighting softwares which were already have in place.

i mean elon musk is sending shuttles to mars but i am sure adobe would close space x if they own it because it doesnt makes money and force elon to sell his shuttle 3d models at adobe stock  ;D

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"You took the wrong decision"
"No we didn't"
"yes you did"
"No" "Yes" etc... This is a summary of an easy trolling topic.

So what we can do is expose is our point of view, and we can agree to disagree on this.

What we see is the 3D industry booming in the upcoming years, and we want to be ready when it happens and bring our ideas/solutions to the table. And reviewing the options/discussing with potential partners, we chose Adobe, because that gave us the trust and the keys to build our vision. We have been in touch with them for the last 2 years, so we are confident with the relationship we can build with them.
Once again we can agree to not agree, but this neither an aggressive takeover, nor a naive decision.

This is just semantics which tells nothing about us whos concered about Allegorithmics road map.
'because that gave us the trust and the keys to build our vision' what does this even means?
claiming its not about adobes 180 billion dollars , what does a company with 0 history of 3d (rather than killing 3d vfx related softwares) can be holding as a key. Any experience in the field? no. Any expertise? not slightly. Any passion innovation? i am sure you guys already know what a blend node is. Customer relations? with adobe you are lucky if you can talk with a guy from india recommending you to restart your computer.

hmm, they already had CC malware downloaded in a broad range of computers  so when 3D industry is booming offering whats supposed to be a specialized software to wider range of people?

so that question might be added?
'are you planning to dumb substance down to fit in with adobes target market'

4

I cant wrap my head around this. Allegorithmic is 20 years ahead of Adobe with its 150 employers versus Adobes 30.000.
It just doesnt makes sense.

What they will tell you is that they got some 100+ employees after taking Adobe money 2 years ago. I also wonder how many of those employees are actually developers or are just the usual non developer roles, such as marketing, sales, HR..ect

This was posted in another thread, read point #2

Two things are obvious.
1) Allegorithmic did not realize how much their user base actually hates Adobe. Their user base was drawn to them being a newer independent studio that was not Adobe.
2) Allegorithmic was too attracted to the financial backing Adobe can bring to the table. This obviously was bait, and it worked. Allegorithmic didn't need to do this in my opinion, they didnt even need to expand as much as they have already. The users were fine with the basics of designer and painter, even if they were updated at a slower pace. All the other stuff is just fluff.

1) We knew, If anything we underestimated how much people loved us rather than how much people disliked Adobe.

2) You are right, we didn't need to at all, but we wanted to, because it's an everyday frustration to have ideas you know will revolutionize 3D creation and not being able to carry them further than the idea stage because of a lack of resources and time.

I don't buy this completely due the fact you don't need a big team to "revolutionize 3D", which we have seen in the past. Just one or two insanely good developers can do magic, you don't need a ton of money and a giant team with nice offices with massive bills to pay. Its like wanting to get to the finish line (big successful studio) without running the entire race. So what if it takes a bit longer to get where you want to be? Whats the rush?

3D Coat was basically done by 1 guy with some helpers, Zbrush started with a small team, Affinity which is competing with Adobe for photoshop and designer only have around 13-16 people if I remember correctly. History shows that you can "revolutionize" and simply design good software with just one person, you can do it with a small highly skilled team.
Thus, this idea that you need big "publisher like" money to help you "produce" or shape the industry (when you already had a strong following) is simply not believable.

What they also don't realize is that no matter how good they do at Adobe, its going to go to waste for a lot of people since they will NOT be installing Adobe's CC. Allego can tell me all the great stuff they plan on doing, and it won't matter as long as I am told I have to use CC to use any of it.

At this point I can appreciate the argument coming from those in favor of open source software. Users were drawn to Substance in large part because it wasn't Adobe. I stopped using Quixel back then, not because I thought it was worse, but because it forced me to rely on Adobe Photoshop. This was a choice a lot of artist had to make back then, which one got us away from Adobe.

Allegorithmic, some advice. Don't force the use of the CC going forward. Too many of us will not install it.

+1

It is an understatement saying that we dislike Adobe we straight out do not respect them.
For us they are the mob keeping softwares for creative people as hostages with zero intention of 'revolutionize' anything and now they took Allegorithmic as a hostage to squeeze as much profit as they can from these guys.
They represent exactly other end of the spectrum for every adjective than what Allegorithmic and its community represents.

I remember my friend first time showing me SP on youtube, and first thing that took my attention was,  they were answering every single comment on youtube, i thought 'they are nuts,i love them already' .Ofcourse after seeing their product i loved them even more.

In a different scenario if instead of selling out to Adobe if Allegorithmic stated 'we are in some financial hurdles and we cant give perpetuity licenses until we have financial security'
Damn i would be more than happy to do my part and continue supporting them because i trust them sorry but not under abodes flag.

I really dont understand why adobe needs 30.000 employers it just needs one ceo to keep softwares as hostage and collect money.

point #2

'2) You are right, we didn't need to at all, but we wanted to, because it's an everyday frustration to have ideas you know will revolutionize 3D creation and not being able to carry them further than the idea stage because of a lack of resources and time.'

i agree with the ninsix's post :as example of pixologic, yes dynamesh, zremesher and many 3D revolutionary codes they have are million dollar codes that changed how we do things, but i dont believe they needed million dollar to code them they needed incredibly creative people WITH CREATIVE FREEDOM to think and implement them
and about time...

how many years of Allegorithmics time do you think Adobe will waste to implement substance into CC. SP Dimension bridge SP adobe stock bridge and whatever waste of time they had in their agenda and what resources of an 2d dinasour can have to revolutionize  anything in 3d. I am imagining Adobe and Allegos people on a round table and they must have nothing in common to talk about.

I would even understant if it was Foundry (it would create monopoly but..) at least they will share with them their expertise on 3D, damn,  udim support would be the first order in the business instead of waste of time substance cc integration or whatever adobes non creatives have in mind and they solve your problem on the fly thats why while you work on 100 million dollars of movie you are not afraid to work with them. Texture painters using photoshop in the 'common windows' computer of the studios is one thing but building a texturing pipeline around any Adobe product...you must be an absolute mad man to do that.

Anyways happy to hear they wont drop linux and genuinely i hope all Allegorithmic core stuff will keep their jobs as long as they want and given the chance to use their full potential.

(obviously i passed denial and anger, now i am at bargaining stage-what if we give adobe sebastian and that screw normal map they liked and keep the rest ;D it will take them at least a year to figure out and play with screw normal map)

5
But for the present time we can still buy a perpetual license and get of the train offline completely without some secret code pinging Adobe ?  Move that license to a second computer in the future - no online b/s ?

https://theblog.adobe.com/adobe-acquires-allegorithmic-substance-3d-gaming/
'I know that the addition of Allegorithmic will further that goal and I’m looking forward to sharing more details about how we’re incorporating Allegorithmic’s Substance tools into Creative Cloud over the coming months.'

meaning:
'perpetual licenses will stop receiving updates without Adobes monthly extortion over the coming months'

well, since Adobe will add only meaningless features and UI color changes for the next decade, offline should be safe?

6



The "Peter Jackson" blog post was painful to read. It made me cringe to be honest. It was all too excited, but in a... very corporate way. When I finished reading this, I was pretty convinced that something was a bit wrong here.
I kept thinking about a future blog post about an "OH SH*T moment", when he realizes that well, he's not in charge anymore, and maybe one day, have a Palmer Luckey moment and simply be gone, leaving his baby to strangers.


I cant wrap my head around this. Allegorithmic is 20 years ahead of Adobe with its 150 employers versus Adobes 30.000.
I am not trying to be political here but just for the sake of analogy.
Its like a developing 3rd world country colonizing over 1st world country and president of that 1st world country is extremely happy because they are bringing their bad business habbits and unhappy citizens(customers) with them to pull them 20 years back.

It just doesnt makes sense.

7


Adobe have been working on a prototype UI for the new CC lineup....
oh man that seems so accurate :(

adobe is the mcdonalds of the creativity. there must be a party at the foundry headquarters
they eliminated a serious competitor without spending a dime.
mari already started to implement allegorithmics good ideas. in the future (well, already is)that would be the package to create world class assets with a price tag while allegorithmic is making thousands of meetings with adobe to figure out the best way to drag and drop a texture on logos.

and there will be nothing inbetween for hobbyist and indie

we cant really have anything we like  :-\

8
they 'have to' say most  heartwarming and cushy things about Adobe products now.
need to do your own research and tests

'You can buy these wonderful models from https://stock.adobe.com/3d-assets and make your designer friends jealous with your renders yeyyy'
My favorites are garlic model and 'LOVE' text.

From the Peter Jackson moment
“Adobe is bringing Allegorithmic on board so that we can, along with the incredible talent at Adobe which has already been working on 3D projects and research, invent the next generation of 3D creative tools, with Substance as a flagship product, but also combining Adobe’s own current 3D initiatives like Adobe Dimension, and more,”

so their priority will never ever be games and films.

It's $30 a month to get 10 assets off that store. Hooo boy the quality you get for the price.

Wait you mean...
I can own this for JUST 30 bucks a month!



thats a steal! This is going to change 3d game forever! imagine putting 'dot normals' on that with SP. WOW

'Use it to get 3d effects without being a 3D expert' :) this should be the new motto.

9
they 'have to' say most  heartwarming and cushy things about Adobe products now.
need to do your own research and tests

'You can buy these wonderful models from https://stock.adobe.com/3d-assets and make your designer friends jealous with your renders yeyyy'
My favorites are garlic model and 'LOVE' text.

From the Peter Jackson moment
“Adobe is bringing Allegorithmic on board so that we can, along with the incredible talent at Adobe which has already been working on 3D projects and research, invent the next generation of 3D creative tools, with Substance as a flagship product, but also combining Adobe’s own current 3D initiatives like Adobe Dimension, and more,”

so their priority will never ever be games and films.

10
Here is adobe's first Allegorithmic promo.

adobe's understanding of Substance is someone trying to stamp 8 holes on a model using a toaster machine as a computer and trying to render it with the garbage called Dimension.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SusZU-o_kds

FUTURE SEEMS BRIGHT!

totally sold out the company who understands Allegorithmic products and its soul.

Good luck trying to explain what 'udim' is to you bosses bosses bossess bosses bossess boss at 134234th meeting.

Adobe trying to be in 3d game, if they try to put their dirty hands on pixologic we need to start a kickstarter campaign to fund the company as much as we can.

Whats up with the 10 FPS video rotations? Did they get a student to make this promo?  ;D ;D ;D

Probably recorded on a $400 laptop as to match the market they're aiming for now with their focus on "Creativity for non-artists".

Where does Adobe Dimension fall into all of this in terms of "Game Development". I've never seen this software as part of any studio workflow before, but who knows... Maybe someone uses this... It's like putting 'Substance' products which are high quality and industry standard and trying to package it with something nobody cares for. You know, the cool kids on the block having a tag along...

Now I might be wrong because I have never heard any reference to Adobe Dimension besides this video with any studio pipeline in games, so I apologize ahead of time if I'm wrong.

Dimension was basically (at least during its beta) a really bare bones free alternative to something like Keyshot, until it exited beta and got a price tag. It was 'okay' I guess, I got a few decent renders out of it. Problem is it's pretty much useless for anyone hobbyist or above, they will do Keyshot, Blender, or IRay renders of their stuff. That video TERRIFIES me because it tells me that Adobe sees Substance as a tool for casual nobodies to fuck around with out of curiosity, to create their newest instagram image that their friends and family can drop a Like on, not a tool for professionals to create to industry leading digital assets.

I've had a nagging doubt in my mind since the announcement that Adobe bought Allegorithmic for 1 real reason, to farm potential patent options out of Substance Designer. Design is, as someone put it early in this thread, a pink diamond. There is NOTHING else out there that offers the same toolset or concept focus. Designer is something that, unlike Painter, can actually have a lot of uses for 2D applications. I fear Adobe bought Allegorithmic so they could dissect it and excavate out every useful, unique feature it has to slap on patents to prevent competition and integrate it into photoshop.

this video is TERRIFYING indeed.
1)So adobe was on board for the last 2 years and thats how they showcase painter? even with 10 minutes youtube search you can figure out a way better 10 sec promo video material for substance.

2)lag is hilarious actually. See your substance in 2 years. Lagy, never gets usefull updates (ofcourse we killed linux) , left to death software.
Or

A company which creates design applications over 20 years MUST know lag is NO GOOD right
Right?
hahahahahah. damn.





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