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Messages - Gyurics Balázs

Pages: [1] 2
1
Hello Jeremie!

How you feel, is there a chance that the upcoming(febr.7.) Radeon VII would have some benefit due to 4k-8k complex texturing, with tones of layer by using it's super fast (1T/s) 16 gig memory?

2
"We are scared to lose perpetual licenses because Adobe uses perpetual licenses"
This is one of the topics, where we don't have visibility yet, so you have the right to be skeptical until we deliver a clear model.

"I'll pay way more for the same products"
Even if I seriously doubt it, once again we don't have visibility so you can remain skeptical until we deliver.

2 days ago in the first thread your answer was a clear: "no, you will not lose your perpetual license" and also: "Yes, you still will be able to upgrade into perpetual license if you have an ongoing 12 month constant subscription right now"

And after 2 days it turns out that you do not have visibility due to this question? - It will not calm dawn the community I'm afraid.

Please, try to short it out as fast as posible. Please understand, that it's not about that non of us can handle the
financial loss, but psichologicaly it's a huge burden, that will block an ongoing constructive conversation about the future, about this change.

And please allow me immediately a question based on this subject:
- how you see, the future due to upcoming competition? Probablly a lot of comanies will try to grab the opportunity to develop a texturing system as you have. Why it's an opportunity? Becouse few days ago you were the lonely wolf rockstars of 3D DCCs, no one really wanted to go versus Substance, since the 3d content creator community would immediately digg a grave for him... But now! Now they would go versus Adobe and with that they will be able to even roleplay the wight-knights of 3d texturing community.
- Do you know how far Mudbox is from substance painter due to texturing for example? And do you know how much it cost right now? (of course it's not the right comparison, since Mudbox is an organic sculpting DCC tool in the first place)
- Do you know how far Houdini is from substance designer with their "COP" system? Do you know how much Houdini Indi cost? Houdini Indi! The most complex, most profesional 3D indi DCC tool in the market.
And probablly there are a lot who are lurking now in the shadows and will jump in the right moment.
- Can you imagine that if you add Alchemy to our existing substance bundle, and maybe lower the prices a bit for the new incomers, will it be able to keep the competition with the upcoming "siege tools" that will defenately be released by these giants?


Sorry for the misunderstanding: I was talking the evolution of the business model: existing perpetual licenses will remain (I will edit).

Competition: we had competition in the past, and we'll have in the future. The only answer is making great products, continue to innovate, and offering great support. We did it in the past, and there is no reason to stop it. Being with Adobe, we have to tackle a new challenge that have been illustrated by a lot of gifs/memes: many of the existing or the new actors will play the role of the rebel versus the Empire. This will be one of our challenges.

- I don't get you point with Mudbox and/or Houdini: as competitors? We are looking at everyone honestly :)

- Not sure what you mean with the last question: Substance alchemist? it's will come with the Substance offer when ready if it's your question.

Thanks!
That seems a really correct decision on your side. And I also can imagine that you had to even fight for this decision of yours with the management of Adobe.

I just mentioned Mudbox and Houdini indi, (not if even they would be in the same shelf) but these are 2 softwares that can come up with some competition due to there great price range and already existing texturing, painting / procedural texture building contents.

And yes, you are right, I wanted to write "Alchemist" not Alchemy :) - mistyped - and I just wanted to share my (probably irrevocable) but determined opinion, that the existing Substance package must include it and do not publish it as an independent Adobe CC fragment.

3
"We are scared to lose perpetual licenses because Adobe uses perpetual licenses"
This is one of the topics, where we don't have visibility yet, so you have the right to be skeptical until we deliver a clear model.

"I'll pay way more for the same products"
Even if I seriously doubt it, once again we don't have visibility so you can remain skeptical until we deliver.

2 days ago in the first thread your answer was a clear: "no, you will not lose your perpetual license" and also: "Yes, you still will be able to upgrade into perpetual license if you have an ongoing 12 month constant subscription right now"

And after 2 days it turns out that you do not have visibility due to this question? - It will not calm dawn the community I'm afraid.

Please, try to short it out as fast as posible. Please understand, that it's not about that non of us can handle the
financial loss, but psichologicaly it's a huge burden, that will block an ongoing constructive conversation about the future, about this change.

And please allow me immediately a question based on this subject:
- how you see, the future due to upcoming competition? Probablly a lot of comanies will try to grab the opportunity to develop a texturing system as you have. Why it's an opportunity? Becouse few days ago you were the lonely wolf rockstars of 3D DCCs, no one really wanted to go versus Substance, since the 3d content creator community would immediately digg a grave for him... But now! Now they would go versus Adobe and with that they will be able to even roleplay the wight-knights of 3d texturing community.
- Do you know how far Mudbox is from substance painter due to texturing for example? And do you know how much it cost right now? (of course it's not the right comparison, since Mudbox is an organic sculpting DCC tool in the first place)
- Do you know how far Houdini is from substance designer with their "COP" system? Do you know how much Houdini Indi cost? Houdini Indi! The most complex, most profesional 3D indi DCC tool in the market.
And probablly there are a lot who are lurking now in the shadows and will jump in the right moment.
- Can you imagine that if you add Alchemy to our existing substance bundle, and maybe lower the prices a bit for the new incomers, will it be able to keep the competition with the upcoming "siege tools" that will defenately be released by these giants?

4
So you mean make sure each island is the same size (except the last)?

As "size" we are talking about checker density pattern right?
It deppends on your model, but wait, I link you a tutorial:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bwusznnkRxo

5
if in that way it can cover more in the 1:1 field than yes, but also take care of optimalization, so take a look how an UV checker behave (distortion) when you make that cut, also take care and test that the UV checker density shows exactely what you wish due to the different UV islands.

6
no, the only thing that is matter, that what resolution of texture you set up for the project (olso, that in what resolution you bake it out) And how you were able to set up your UV islands in the 1:1 UV field.

A 4K texture workflow baked and exported as 4K texture maps used on the same UV layout will be the same if it goes to 6 poly cube or to a 6 mill poly cube.

7
Dimension uses an in-house raytracer (it was using Vray in its first version) and uses the MDL format for its materials, same as iray.
Substance materials either from SD or SP will render 100% identical in Dimension already.

A RTX GPU accelerated version is also in the works.

It can render pretty expensive scenes, example:



Thanks for the info!

Pardon me by mentioning this, but there was one thing that I did not liked in your product and it was Iray. Sure, it's clear that Nvidia probablly supported Allegorythmic to force You to use their (Nvidia's) homebrew render engine, that of course will not utalize any other GPU cores than Nvidia's own ones. (It's so funny by the way, that AMD's ProRender allow us to use AMD cards and Nvidia cards in the same time, but it never will be true due to a render where Nvidia is lurking in the background)
Long story short, Iray produced a bunch of artifacts when I rendered with it, I tried to push sampling numbers to the sky, but still they appiered. And of course it was not made as a "real" render engine more like a "lets take a look" option.

I see Adobe Dimension is 20 dollars / month. Basicaly the same as Octane, Redshift... well but it seems it goes hand to hand with the big boys.
EEVEE free, AMD ProRender free, LuxCore/ LuxRender free...

I'm more and more exaited how you will shake the 3D industry on Adobes site.
I will be honest (And I guess it's known by you and by everyone) There are two options:
- you will be heroes and make a revolution inside the 3D DCC market + a bunch of income
- or it will be the biggest fail in the DCC market

(first of all, that "Dimension" should go free, untill it can not show up something like Octane, Redshift, Arnold, Renderman.... and when it will be able to offer MORE than it can go for 20/month)

Some pay for Maya or Max, becouse it has Arnold in it
Some use Blender becouse it has 2 quite great render engines in it FREE
Some use Unity just becouse it has FREE Octane render engine in it (since 4.0)

You see, this is how it will be:
- Max, Maya, Arnold
- Blender, Cycles, EEVEE
- Unity, Octane
- Substance, Dimension (your team)

Will you be able to force us to Choose Your team?

8
they 'have to' say most  heartwarming and cushy things about Adobe products now.
need to do your own research and tests

'You can buy these wonderful models from https://stock.adobe.com/3d-assets and make your designer friends jealous with your renders yeyyy'
My favorites are garlic model and 'LOVE' text.

From the Peter Jackson moment
“Adobe is bringing Allegorithmic on board so that we can, along with the incredible talent at Adobe which has already been working on 3D projects and research, invent the next generation of 3D creative tools, with Substance as a flagship product, but also combining Adobe’s own current 3D initiatives like Adobe Dimension, and more,”

so their priority will never ever be games and films.

It's $30 a month to get 10 assets off that store. Hooo boy the quality you get for the price.

Do not missunderstood me, I do not have and never had any models, assets in that store, but in this question I'm on the artists side. 30dollar / month is nothing compaired, that Adobe takes 70% income and you should pay your taxes to US + to your own country as well if you do not live in the US (from your left 30% lol) now make a guess what chances a modeler has to sell something in that store when there are already nearly 7000 models.
So yea, I guess we do not have to be surprised that some of the models are lacking a bit there...

But well, it could be 90% to the Artist and 10% to Adobe (they have quite expensive software subscription pans right?) and the sub could be much cheaper... so al in all everyone would be happy...oh wait but this scenario do not seems like as a giant company is keeping slaves in it's backyard who are 3D modeling for him from a little village in the 3. world where they lacking in sweet water, but lucky them they have internet, so the most talented guy from the village can earn 15 dollars / day.

70/30 - thats the first and most cardinal issue there! Disgusting! And the artist should pay the tax after the sale(?) + after his income(well that part is ok)

9
By the way, it's the first time that I hear about "Adobe Dimension"
What kind of render it is?
- It's a biased or an unbiased one? BPR?
- It's utalizeing CPU or GPU
- Just CUDA if GPU or OpenCL as well?
- Pathtraceing, ray traceing?
- Can we render huge scenes with it?
- Can it handle sequences?

Can not find anything about it.. just some advertisment content

Give us some time and we'll let you know: i don't know the product enough yet.

thanks!

10
By the way, it's the first time that I hear about "Adobe Dimension"
What kind of render it is?
- It's a biased or an unbiased one? BPR?
- It's utalizeing CPU or GPU
- Just CUDA if GPU or OpenCL as well?
- Pathtraceing, ray traceing?
- Can we render huge scenes with it?
- Can it handle sequences?

Can not find anything about it.. just some advertisment content

11
ROFL yea maybe I've got it wrong. Maybe they're going dumb down the software.

That video looks like it was made by someone who has no idea what a .fbx is.

Yea, I just wanted to say, that the inverse of your first premonition that will happen.

I also have intuitions, in my opinion Adobe will buy C4D as well to have a complete 3D pack with a modeling DCC tool.

And you was right in your previous post that everything is getting more easier and more accessible in the world of 3D DCC tools, but lets be honest, with these "easy" tool ppl can make the same templates... it's not art!

The future and specially the PRO segment of the future 3D art will not shut out Indi artists, it's flagship is already sailed out, it's called: Houdini Indi  8)
And one more thing: compositing, sculpting will always be a thing.. no matter what instant templates some of these softwares will offer, there always will be an artist who will sculpt better, composite better based on his talent.

12
This thread is hilarious

Well, a lot of us had a "David Lynch Moment" today.

13
This is sad news.
I do not share the general animosity towards adobe or even its subscription model, and I do not claim to be able to see the future of Substance. But I do have a problem with large shareholder owned tech companies buying more and more smaller, potentially competing companies. I think if our politicians were doing their job, acquisitions like this should be prevented by anti-trust laws. Mergers and acquisitions by ever larger monopolies are not ""exciting news" for customers - competition is.

Sadly its the main way todays.
The only alternative is open source.
It's why from time to time i make donation to the blender foundation even if i'm a C4D user.

Thats really nice of you, that you donate to Blender!  8)
But to be honest Maxon is a greedy company as well 3600 dollar for a c4D studio? hahah and you have to pay + for X-particles  :D
My software pack that I use and I PAYED FOR:
- Zbrush (the full pack is actually superior!)
- Houdini Indi (they give you everything: maya lvl rigging, even muscle sim that is missing from maya lt, particle, volume simulations, BEST retopo tool, procedural modeling and since 17.0 polyDraw - kind an ortodox polymodeling way, built in render engine)
- Substance (???all we can do is hoping untill they finaly anonce what can we expect)
- Blender (of course)
- Davinci Resolve (it knows everything! And even the free version has Fusion!)

Now, what I would need from CC? With the above software pack... Dimension? Aero? (pardon me but... ;D)

Lets be honest, there is one cool bundel that Adobe sells: the photo bundle: lightroom + PS + Fuse + Adobe portfolio for 6 euro / month - no doubt, thats a good one!

14
In reading the blogs, Allegorithmic survived and flourished perfectly fine for 15 years, then two years ago Adobe joined the Alegorithmic board and suddenly budget targets had to be met (presuming bigger profits) which then led to Athegorithmic to sell to Adobe.

As a small company, we always had to meet targets, simply to stay in business. The arrival of Adobe did not change that, we had other investors before Adobe came along. Any startup or small company is lucky if it makes any profit at all, and every cent of that profit for the past few years has been reinjected in new hires, hardware and offices.

We were acquired by Adobe because it made sense for the strategy of both companies, not because we were forced to.

Thats all good! I'm happy to hear it that you all in a good shape thanks to selling out the company.
Just tell me one thing:
- I bought (basically a month ago) a full year Substance Indi license BECOUSE I wanted to supplement it to a permanent license in the end of the yearly sub.
- I'm a small company as well, I'm happy if I make any profit as well, AND i ALSO INVEST EVERY PROFIT TO REINJECT TO MY COMPANY THIS IS HOW i BOUGHT SUBSTANCE for example.

What will happen with my bought 1 year subscription, but most important: will I be able to buy out my perma license in the end of the year sub?
- Should I give it up? (I do not wanna invest more that the + 40 dollar for the perma license in the end of the yearly sub) It's important for me to know these answers, since I do not wanna build up my pipeline around something that I have to pirate later on (of course it's posible, but if I have options, I rather dodge that scenario)

Substance is here to stay, and you don't have to worry about anything.
Will we have new business models and will we make changes in the future? Of course, as we always did in the past. But when this happens we always warn our users and offer them fair offers. This is how we built ourselves, and how we will continue working.

thanks for your answer!

So the following FAQ page is still viable and will be in a year from now. So if someone buys a year subscription based on reading that sub system description, you can confirm, that he will have the option, the benefit to redeem a permanent license?
https://www.allegorithmic.com/faq-substance

15
In reading the blogs, Allegorithmic survived and flourished perfectly fine for 15 years, then two years ago Adobe joined the Alegorithmic board and suddenly budget targets had to be met (presuming bigger profits) which then led to Athegorithmic to sell to Adobe.

As a small company, we always had to meet targets, simply to stay in business. The arrival of Adobe did not change that, we had other investors before Adobe came along. Any startup or small company is lucky if it makes any profit at all, and every cent of that profit for the past few years has been reinjected in new hires, hardware and offices.

We were acquired by Adobe because it made sense for the strategy of both companies, not because we were forced to.

Thats all good! I'm happy to hear it that you all in a good shape thanks to selling out the company.
Just tell me one thing:
- I bought (basically a month ago) a full year Substance Indi license BECOUSE I wanted to supplement it to a permanent license in the end of the yearly sub.
- I'm a small company as well, I'm happy if I make any profit as well, AND i ALSO INVEST EVERY PROFIT TO REINJECT TO MY COMPANY THIS IS HOW i BOUGHT SUBSTANCE for example.

What will happen with my bought 1 year subscription, but most important: will I be able to buy out my perma license in the end of the year sub?
- Should I give it up? (I do not wanna invest more that the + 40 dollar for the perma license in the end of the yearly sub) It's important for me to know these answers, since I do not wanna build up my pipeline around something that I have to pirate later on (of course it's posible, but if I have options, I rather dodge that scenario)

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