Messages

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Substance - News & Announcements - Re: Allegorithmic is joining the Adobe family

 on: January 26, 2019, 11:16:12 pm 

1) It makes Painter look easy to use
There's no fast mouse movements or anything too complex going on. It makes the viewer think "hey, I could easily stamp my logo onto a 3D product! That's awesome!"

THIS IS NOT A GOOD THING. We are using and want PROFESSIONAL software, not Adobe Stock 3D Asset Stamp and Post Instagram bait.

2) It makes Painter look like it's on even-footing with Dimension
I think it's more than likely that the low frame-rate was a conscious decision. If Painter's viewer both looked nicer and ran better than Dimension's, it would reflect poorly on Adobe's own product.

Now this is downright delusional. Come on, man. They made Substance look laggy to make it fair for Dimension? Anyone that cares for 3D already understands that a render is a slow thing, and them trying to hide that shows they aren't marketing towards people who do proper 3D work.

For years allegorithmic has been building not just nice software, but also a nice utopian community which had almost nothing else to say about them but praise.
Then Mr. Deguy sold us all into slavery to no one else but the corporation whose bad business model brought us here in the first place. We are just not the targeted audience anymore. There's no amount of sugar coating that can make this seem fine. This whole situation seems like tv drama material. Time to swallow that truth pill and move on. It's hard, obviously I'm having a hard time moving on myself or else I wouldn't still be here. But time heals they say. At least we learned our lesson about trust

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Substance - News & Announcements - Re: Allegorithmic is joining the Adobe family

 on: January 25, 2019, 11:05:44 pm 

I've had a nagging doubt in my mind since the announcement that Adobe bought Allegorithmic for 1 real reason, to farm potential patent options out of Substance Designer. Design is, as someone put it early in this thread, a pink diamond. There is NOTHING else out there that offers the same toolset or concept focus. Designer is something that, unlike Painter, can actually have a lot of uses for 2D applications. I fear Adobe bought Allegorithmic so they could dissect it and excavate out every useful, unique feature it has to slap on patents to prevent competition and integrate it into photoshop.

While I am going to admit Designer was my favorite of the package and an amazing tool, I always thought of it as 2D Houdini. I wouldn't go as far to assume adobe will attempt to patent visual programming.

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Substance - News & Announcements - Re: Allegorithmic is joining the Adobe family

 on: January 25, 2019, 06:36:41 pm 

This just in about Quixel:

From the Foundry forums:
Quote from MarcinB : I hope that Adobe will remember about different pricing for Indie (single freelancers with small year income).


I share a similar sentiment...but for Quixel's upcoming Suite 3.

Teddy, Quixel founder, posted another of his heartfelt letters to his supporters on their closed-to-the-public facebook account (which someone re-posted on reddit). Basically saying Suite 3 will be standalone, it's being currently worked on, they're running out of cash but still managing. He also has indicated getting no support from Adobe when they reached out to them for issues with their existing toolset with a particular version or update to Photoshop. Basically unresponsive. (But no indication in the letter how this relates to Adobe getting in bed with Allegorithmic.)

Well, if they can release it sooner and fill the void. Attract all the disenfranchised ex-substance users into one camp again. That would help bring back "happy days" again for this particular community. And hopefully....they can copy Allegorithmic's store playbook where people have more buying options than just one. More than just a monthly subscription like what (sadly) Quixel currently offers for it's Mixer tool (but tiered, meaning you pay more depending on your revenue profile).

Support Quixel!

Was never a fan of Quixel, but had I known it would come to this, I would have probably supported them instead. Main reason I went substance route is to dodge adobe.

Our perpetuals should serve us fine for a few years, which I hope would be enough for competition to emerge with decent products as an alternative.

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Substance - News & Announcements - Re: Allegorithmic is joining the Adobe family

 on: January 25, 2019, 06:02:37 pm 

I think we can all relax quite a bit, honestly. Think about this:

The Substance software as it stands is already capable of fantastic texture jobs, even if you didn't update it anymore.

You could probably subsist on your perpetual license for another 10 years and avoid the cloud entirely, until a proper competitor reveals itself.

Even if Adobe publishes flashy new tools, I don't think it would impact your ability to make awesome textures without them, using the current tools.

 

Exactly, Allegorithmic's tools are basically perfected (maybe they even sold out because there's not much more to develop and might be that adobe bought a sinking ship) and we'll do fine with no updates. I'm assured their tools won't flourish under adobe, so I'm not worried about missing those updates. Heck, I even expect them to be full of adobe related malware. Back up multiple software versions and your licence keys guys, bloatware is coming.

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Substance - News & Announcements - Re: Allegorithmic is joining the Adobe family

 on: January 24, 2019, 11:08:23 pm 

Until allegorithmic actually does decouple the licensing server from our perpetuals so that adobe cannot disable our software, I will be convinced that the sale of perpetuals was an organized scam in collaboration with adobe

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Substance - News & Announcements - Re: Allegorithmic is joining the Adobe family

 on: January 24, 2019, 10:44:01 pm 

I've been thinking about getting a perpetual licence, but now I've changed my mind completely.

The major problem is we see posts like this in response to "What will happen to perpetual licenses?".



Now, unless the word 'perpetual' means something different, you cannot just revoke those licences. My assumption is that when Substance is fully part of the Creative Cloud, Adobe will most likely give a subscription credit amount for those with "legacy" perpetual licenses, then move them over into the subscription model.

--

per·pet·u·al
/pərˈpeCH(o͞o)əl/Submit
adjective
1. never ending or changing.
2. occurring repeatedly; so frequent as to seem endless and uninterrupted.

--

I would suggest not defining these licenses as perpetual as it's extremely misleading. Adobe really needs to come forward and let everyone here know what we're looking at in terms of pricing for the future. Investing our time and energy into keeping Substance as part of our workflows is pointless unless we know it's something that will be sustainable for the long haul. Games are not developed overnight, and changing the pipeline during development costs a lot of time and money in new licenses and training.

If going forward perpetual licences will not be offered, but prior ones honored, then that's a different story and should be clarified.

While you are right in that they can't revoke them, but if the software relies on a licensing server, and if that server is "cost burden" to the company then they can shut it down. That isn't revoking your license, its still your license, just the infrastructure that supported it is now gone.

They've done this before, many times. As have many other software providers. I expect no difference now.

The only way they can assure people is by decoupling the need for a licensing server to install or check for a valid license. (Aka, like how the old Modo licenses worked ... you have your own license file and thats all you need).

It's been mentioned they've been collaborating with adobe for a few years now. So if allegorithmic doesn't decouple the licensing server, it basically means they decided to serve us all on a silver platter after we gave them money.

No wonder they were selling cheap perpetuals in the first place. It was a sham all along.. There must be some grounds for a class action lawsuit here, hopefully we can get in touch with someone with legal expertise

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Substance - News & Announcements - Re: Allegorithmic is joining the Adobe family

 on: January 24, 2019, 10:23:00 pm 

WHAT IS GOING TO HAPPEN TO PERPETUAL LICENCES?

If you read the Adobe press release they've made it clear that perpetual licenses will not exist and it will be under the umbrella of CC.

Just like they've done with past perpetual licenses (both their own, and acquired) they will terminate the licensing servers and force you to subscribe. If you take a look into the past as an example when it will occur, probably within the first year, definitely in the second.

I am definitely expecting adobe to attempt invalidating our perpetuals. Any idea if we have any kind of legal ground for a class action lawsuit when it happens?

No need for a lawsuits guys, you keep your perpetual licenses, no doubt about that. You own it.

For now? Don't get me wrong, but I don't think you guys make that call anymore

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Substance - News & Announcements - Re: Allegorithmic is joining the Adobe family

 on: January 24, 2019, 10:06:28 pm 

WHAT IS GOING TO HAPPEN TO PERPETUAL LICENCES?

If you read the Adobe press release they've made it clear that perpetual licenses will not exist and it will be under the umbrella of CC.

Just like they've done with past perpetual licenses (both their own, and acquired) they will terminate the licensing servers and force you to subscribe. If you take a look into the past as an example when it will occur, probably within the first year, definitely in the second.

I am definitely expecting adobe to attempt invalidating our perpetuals. Any idea if we have any kind of legal ground for a class action lawsuit when it happens?

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Substance - News & Announcements - Re: Allegorithmic is joining the Adobe family

 on: January 24, 2019, 08:27:25 pm 

What I REALLY want to know is this:

What happens to perpetual licenses. Will they lose access, will they be stuck with the last update they had or will they go on as normal guarenteed?

What happens to Substance Source and our available downloads? Do we need to use them all up? Will they remain?

Adobe always adds things to their subscription service and this will be no different. So we need to know what it happening to our purchases and for it to be clear.

Thank you.

Substance Source will 100% be shut down. Adobe doesn't like that stuff, community brushes and filters were removed and put onto Adobe Stock where you have to pay money for each of them. Use up all your Source points now and backup the sbsars, Source will be gone very soon.

I've been told source is here to stay. Don't trust a word of it, this is now adobe after all. Better start spending points

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Substance - News & Announcements - Re: Allegorithmic is joining the Adobe family

 on: January 24, 2019, 05:07:58 pm 

Trying not to be salty, just giving my objective feedback regarding the topic:
For me the main selling point of Allegorithmic's software was the flexible business model itself. Personally, I use substance only occasionally as I keep most of my work in Houdini. That being said, there is absolutely no way I'm paying a monthly subscription for something I don't use on a daily basis, no matter the price. Yes, I'm aware licensing won't change for now, but we all know adobe, hence the reserved "for now" part. From the very start, the main selling point was the ability the buy perpetual licenses and have that software lying around until I needed it and if I liked new updates enough, I was willing to pay for the upgrade. And I had faith you were going to deliver those worthy updates (and you did so far, so thanks for that). Part of which was because you needed those worthy updates to keep selling your product. Forgive my skepticism, but with subscription only based business model (led by no one else but adobe), I kinda doubt those worthy updates will be happening.

I've been able to dodge adobe so far and unfortunately, I won't jump aboard this train with you. Now my only wish is to keep my perpetuals for the software version I payed for, adobe not being able to scam me into their subscription down the road and repress the sad memory of all of this happening. Allegorithmic not being corporate is what gave me confidence in it's future, this software package just lost all it's appeal to me. Hope it was a fine sum, as many hearts were broken for it.

You were to bring balance to the force, not leave it in darkness