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Messages - Bosco

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Substance PainterSubstance Painter - Discussions - Beetle
 on: June 24, 2019, 02:51:27 pm 
Can anyone tell me if it's possible to create in Painter an effect similar to a beetle's carapace?

In particular is it possible to shift the hue value depending on the angle of the pixel to the camera?

Here's a link to a pic of a beetle to hopefully illustrate what I mean.


Ok, thanks Jeremie/Froyok.

Useful to know. :)

Overwrite Existing Normal = On
Use World Units = On

I found with Surface Size at 1000(max) and Height Depth at 0.1 (min) the normal channel looked correct but no different to not using the `Height to Normal' filter. Adjusting either of the latter parameters introduces the orange and green colours shown in my earlier screen shot.

I don't really have an end goal with this, I'm just trying to familiarise myself with all of Painters features. :)

I suppose my real question is what is the intended use for the `Height to Normal' filter given that painting into the height channel already contributes to the normal channel when combined?

Might be easier to describe my setup.

So I created a layer and set Height' to pass-through. I then added the `Height to Normal' filter.

Below I created a fill layer with a black mask to which I added a `Fill' and dropped on a height map I had loaded into the project. I then set the height channel to 0.65.

The image on the left shows the effect of just the height map. Looks good and exactly like I'd expect. :)

The image on the right is with the `Height to Normal' layer added. As you can see the pixel normals are no longer unitised.

TBH I'm not entirely sure what this filter was intended for. Thought I would just check it out. :)

Ok, I've figured out the correct setup from the Tile Sample scene that ships with Painter. :)

Unfortunately the resulting normal information is way out of range, even after playing with Surface Size.

Must still be doing something wrong.


I've heard using the `Height to Normal' filter gives nicer results than just using height maps.

I'd like to compare both approaches but can't figure out the correct way to connect a height map and filter to a layer without outputting both height and normal information.

Any help as to the correct way to use the `Height to Normal' filter would be appreciated.

Thanks. :)


I'm one of those poor unfortunates  ;D who needs to screen cap the material view for the work I do and I've noticed a faint dusty brown colour appearing in my textures which I haven't added and isn't coming from my environment map. I'm now wondering if this is fresnel fall-off?

Can anyone confirm - I know the pics aren't the best?

Before anyone asks, I have tried using the baked lighting filter but I didn't find it very satisfactory.

I would like to congratulate the Substance team on all the recent updates, especially the UI updates which have really improved my workflow.


Cyrille Damez raised some interesting and valid points but I would argue that the contents of the 2D view can and do look good when applied to 3D models.

I am a character artist with console and mobile experience and think Painter is a fantastic tool for mobile game development especially when trying to produce `fake' console quality visuals on low-end devices. I have tried `light baking' but much prefer the results from environment map lighting. And although reflections in the 2D view aren't necessarily going to be accurate, provided buckles, dials, buttons etc. look shiny and metallic, I'm happy.

I'm a big advocate of Painter but do wish I didn't need to take multiple screen grabs of the 2D view each time I update a texture. Maybe something can be done to improve baked lighting, to take it closer to the results in the viewport?

I believe there is a significant secondary market for Painter amongst the mobile development community provided their particular needs can be accommodated. Here's hoping.  :)

Cool, thanks for the info.  :)

Painter must require a lot of background resources to total 18mb?

I'm still finding my feet with Painter but one thing I've noticed is Painter files get very large very quickly.

A 26kb FBX file brought into Painter and immediately saved out with no substances or maps, turns into 18mb. That's over 700 times larger than the source and I haven't begun texturing yet?

Can anyone explain the dramatic difference in file sizes?

Is there anything I can do to optimise Painter file sizes, (besides hitting the `clean' button)?


Thanks for the response Jeremie.  :)

I've had a good look at the Baked Lighting filter. The results are ok but not as realistic looking as the Material view, which is comparable to the 3D view.

Also the Baked Lighting filter does not appear to take into account normal/height information from materials. So I would need to bake a new combined normal map and apply it to the base normal channel before baking the base color channel, (and repeat as necessary).

My preference is still to be able to render the material view, or at least have the choice, (I can see how the Baked Lighting option would suit certain projects). Also for the Material view to omit fresnel but not omit back faces from some lighting calculations.

Substance Painter blew me away when I first saw it but I do now find myself burning valuable time looking for workarounds. I can tell it was never Allegorithmic's intention to have artists trying to use the Material view for anything other than a guide but given so many users have identified the Material view as being valuable to their workflow I wonder if it wouldn't be such a bad idea to add Material view output support.

As I type this I'm looking at shader code (which I don't understand) wondering if I can make a custom pbr-metal-rough shader to light back faces and omit fresnel?  I imagine to someone experienced this is two lines of code? Don't suppose anyone could help me out of this hole?

Many thanks.


I bought Painter hoping to generate realistic looking diffuse maps with baked-in environment map lighting. The only way I've found to achieve this is by screen capturing the material view however I've noticed rear-facing polys ignore lighting or at best receive an extremely coarse approximation, (see sphere below).

Is there a way to make back-facing polys render equivalent to front-facing ones in the material view?

I appreciate this probably isn't the intended workflow for Painter but I think there are a lot of artists out there who are working with Painter in the way I describe and would benefit from a solution to this issue.

Many thanks.

You would likely need a custom shader derived from the standard pbr shader but without the fresnal term.

Is that something that's straightforward to do?

I'm new to Substance. I have a license for Painter but not Designer.

Is there anyone who could do it on my behalf?

I guess if it hasn't been added after two years of waiting then it's not going to happen.  :'(

I'm sure it's trivial to write the contents of the Material view buffer out to an image file but maybe this kind of workflow doesn't fit Allegorithmic's `philosophy' for Painter? Can anyone from Allegorithmic comment?

That would be a shame because I know there's a big market among artists working on low-spec platforms. I've tried to evangelise the virtues of Painter to other artists like myself but when I start screen capturing the final texture they immediately switch-off and lose interest.

Can anyone help with the following?

I'm attempting to texture realistic looking characters in Painter but need to finish up with a single texture with baked-in lighting. Or to put it another way, what can be seen in the Material view.

I figured I can screen capture the Material view, but have noticed a chalky rim around parts of my characters which I'm assuming is the result of fresnel in the standard `pbr-metal-rough' shader?

Does anyone have a fix for the above or a version of the `pbr-metal-rough' shader that has fresnel disabled or controllable?

I've tried using a baked lighting material but the results are not what I'm after.

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

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