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Messages - nalbright

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Wacom One
Driver 6.3.41-1
Windows 10
Painter 2020.2.1
All settings are configured as per the OP

Issue -> No pressure sensitivity.  Note: This is not my primary monitor.

The Roughness is definitely clamping. Which is not good.
There are much work to do about this (for nividia (mental ray) not for the Allegorithmic).

My last information about mental ray is that the MDL 3.0 support is on the way.
In that case you can use the native Substance Painter (iray) MDL file and textures with mental ray.

Until... Don't use the Alpha Gain: 2 (a multiplier) but create a gamma node (for more control use a ramp texture) to correct the roughness values, and keep it between 0 to 1, or create a more complex layer structure to mimic GGX. Or just accept it is not the same.

Cheers, D

I'm aware Gain is a multiplier not an offset.  My bad for being loose with my words.  Maybe I should have said "remaps or expands" not push.  I understand that GGX isn't supported in MR right now.  I guess the purpose of the post was more, "Hey. Is anyone else seeing this with the documented setup", which is sounds like you are too.  I'm using a gamma node right now, but good call with the custom ramp values.  I'll give that a shot!

Substance PainterSubstance Painter - Discussions - MILA Alternative (or not)
 on: February 21, 2017, 09:41:30 pm 
I'm not sure if I set something up wrong or if the documented MILA setup could use some refinement, but I'm definitely getting some oddities with my materials in Maya.  I think the issue stems from the roughness having a gain to 2.0.  Setting the gain to 2.0 would be pushing values of 1 to 2, which I think is outside of the valid range for roughness.  I may have just messed a setting up.  I'm not 100% certain.

To compare I have a network I created this past Spring which I think produces a more accurate result.  It also uses the default albedo, metal, rough maps rather than having to export a reflection and diffuse map.  I based my settings on matching the SP viewport since at the time SP didn't have iray.

Here's a simple script I created which can create my custom network or the documented network.

Place the script in yourDocuments/maya/scripts

inside of maya execute the following python code:
import ImportTextureSets; ImportTextureSets.Run()


To create the allegorithmic network do:
import ImportTextureSets; ImportTextureSets.ALLEGORITHMIC_NETWORK = True; ImportTextureSets.Run()

The script will ask for you to select a folder with your exported textures, then will create the materials.  It assumes your naming convention is $textureSet_mapsuffix.  You must assign the materials to the scene.

Here are test renders of the different outputs.  Once again, I may have just missed something, but as far as I can tell the documented MILA setup doesn't seem to properly capture the overlay of reflections with a 100% black material, nor does the rough look correct with the gain set to 2.0.  Compare the grunge on the bottom of the sphere.


I've been messing with this on and off.  I'm assuming you're using the default iray renderer that comes with 3Ds Max and not the newly released plugin sold by nvidia?

I purchased Substance Designer and then grabbed their MDL materials to use with the nvidia plugin.  Which seemed to work well.  However I've had limited success with max using the default iray.  For example you could use the arch and design material, but the maps are interpreted differently.  I'm trying to remember the details now, but the gloss was either too shiny or too matte.  I tried to come up with a standard set of rules for post processing the maps in photoshop, but even then the results weren't a one to one and I believe they never will be, because the default iray doesn't implement the GGX shader model.

I also ran across other issues like the IOR map not working.  Once again I forget the exact details, but any place where the IOR map had pure black (a value of 0) iray and mental ray would render artifacts.  I had to go in and adjust the levels just enough so no pixel could reach a value of 0.  Once again, this isn't an ideal solution.

I believe Allegorithmic is supposed to be rolling iray into SP, which should make life a lot easier.  Sadly I don't think they've mentioned how far out this feature is.  I'm guessing they won't release a statement until it's officially out, but it would be nice if they revealed improvements like this on a public road map.   I work at a college and our students are scratching their heads wondering how to actually show their work of.   Purchasing Marmoset toolkit or the new iray plugin will probably be the answer, but I keep crossing my fingers we can dodge teaching yet another "utility app".

As I've been exploring the particle tools  I've noticed that the UI often fails to properly refresh when switching between emitters and receivers.  For example   if I switch to the RcBurn it will only list TurbulencePower and Scale parameters.  I then select a new emitter and the RcvBurn will properly show its full set of parameters.  Attached is an example of the UI listing no properties for the RcvVein.

I recently discovered that stamping height with stencils looks a lot sharper using the DOTA2 shader. I can eyeball things much more easily in this light element and get a good feel for how the details correlate. I've started switching to the DOTA2 shader just for this part of a project. It's pretty great.

Good to know.  Thanks for sharing.  And you're right Froyok, this does get you closer to how it may look than not having them.

Wow.  Sorry.  I just saw this was posted in the SD forum not SP.  Please excuse my mistake.

The new items are shaders.  Specifically pbr-car-paint shader and pbr-velvet and unless an external application has a matching shader what's the point of adding them to Substance Painter?  Don't get me wrong, it's cool to see, but without the ability to render high resolution shots from within SP or an application that has that exact shader the benefit seems moot.

My earlier comment about SP not being able to match the materials of other applications is based of my experience with trying to get them looking correct in Unity or Max (and I can only assume Maya).  There's no standard PBR Max shader  and even with something like Mental Ray's Arch and Design material (which is physically correct) there seems to be a lot of extra steps after export needed to get things looking somewhat similar between a max rendering and SP.  With the extra purchase of iray+ or vray it you can have better success, however even before Unity 5.3 there were disparities between SP and Unity that seemed to require additional adjustments after export.  Once again, don't get me wrong.  I'm not complaining.  I get it.  When application A uses a different method for rendering it's going to look different than Application B and SP didn't launch with the goal of looking good in Max versus Unreal.  Hence the reason things like IOR map didn't come out until later versions.

I just woke up this morning thinking, "What's that going to get me".  They seem fun, but not really all that beneficial.

I have to admit I'm a little confused for the reasoning behind adding the custom car paint and cloth shaders to the latest version of SP.  Maybe I'm missing the point of SP, but I'd assume you'd want to use this as part of your asset creation pipeline.  However, when SP's custom shaders already fail to match the look and feel of materials in Max, Maya, and Unity (I have yet to update to version 5.3) what's the point of adding even more custom shaders that won't match the materials of other DCC apps?

I would have been a lot more excited if I saw iray in 1.7.  For some reason I thought that was planned for Painter, but maybe it's just designer?

Right now if I spend the time to create a custom particle brush it can't easily adapt to models of varying sizes.  I'm forced to go to each parameter that has some type of relationship to size and refine all these settings for larger or smaller models.  It would be extremely useful for there to be a global scale param which exists along side the DT settings to apply a scale factor to any parameters which are sensitive to the scale/space of the model.

Example: I create a custom brush to paint on the backside of a eye model.  The particles flow around the model to the front side and creating veins.  Now the modeler gives me the eyeball of a giant that's 5x the size of my previous eye.  I attempt to use my custom particle brush, but the particles don't make it around to the front of the eye due to the scale difference.  If I could set a global scale for the particles to 5.0 then the brush would work as expected.

Thanks for the help!

Is that iray+?    Actually, on the belief that I could get the mdl working I purchased SD this weekend and got a modified version of the shader loading in Max.  I had to add support for texture maps.  There's no support for max's native bitmap node, but a filepath string works.  I also couldn't find the nvidia::df::microfacet_ggx_smith_bsdf that the shaders are using.  I'm assuming that in some DLL, I just don't know which one.  I replaced it with df::specular_bsdf.  Maybe someone could nudge me in the right direction  ;D

The results are interesting, but not 1:1

I just saw the announcement about the integrated iray renderer in Substance Designer.  That leads me to believe there must be an easy way to get the painter maps exported and rendering in 3DsMax's iray.  It's probably just getting the mdl that allgeorithmic is using and throwing them into max.  However, I don't know enough about mdl files to know if they can just be shared across apps/tools like that.  Though I believe that's the point of them, ie a common format for sharing material definitions.


Substance PainterSubstance Painter - Technical Support - Re: 1/ior map with iray
 on: September 25, 2015, 05:06:42 am 
The arch and design material

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