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Messages - Michael_12K

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Lets stop beating around the bush here.

You can't tell us anything about any upcomming changing in payment because they aren't "clear". This is simply a fancy way of saying they're in negotiation. We all know a price increase will come, the question is more in what way. They have to turn a profit at some point, and your current pricing point is based on being your own entity.

The most profitable way for Adobe would be to intergrate it into CC and increase the price on that. Its not like any of our businesses can change an intergrated pipeline in that short time. Not that there is any competition to begin with. I would also not be suprised to find a CC 3D artist licence that is also far more expensive than your current model.

Adobe are not the leaders of the industry btw, you, The Foundry and countless other are. In fact, most conventions I go to Adobe might have some of the biggest booths but most proffesionals talk about what good replacements are for Adobe products.

At the end of the day I just simply don't want to pay for products I don't need (Adobe stuff) while still maintaining updated Allegorithmic products. Or if it can be avoided at all, use Creative Crap.

Btw their current pricing is 4x what yours is for indie devs.
Single program CC licence is 24 euro/m
all 4 Allegorithmic products are 24 euro/m

Apparently, you have more info than I do: if you have the next lottery numbers as well, I would be interested  ;D
More seriously, this thread is less about speculation and more about trying to answer what we can answer.

Many scenarios have already been elaborated, about which decisions will be taken, and what the consequences would be.
As said previously, except agreeing to disagree on these topics, there is nothing to answer.

Thanks for taking to the time to share you point of view though

Seems a bit condescending. No magic involved here though.

No and Yes are pretty clear awnsers and not giving an awnser creates more unrest. Not hard to figure out that they'd still be talking about how to deal with subscription, prices, etc.

And as for the price increase. Prices of anything rarely get lowered, if for some miracle the production cost decreased then the proffit margins would just be higher. Because why change a price people are already willing to pay? But with the increased logistics of Adobe and (probably) their help to intergrate more with each other, it would again, be a miracle if the prices even stayed the same. Because at the end of the day, all costs MUST be accounted for in the final price of the product, thats just business 101.

Now, I would love to know if the prices would change or if the subscription model is gonna change. But those are "not clear yet" so I already have my awnser there. Just getting sick of the PR talk while I'm trying to find out if I have to prepare for a large change in my pipeline, just give an actual awnser instead of having to read between the lines.

Agree! CONDESCENDING all the way - as I have already noted in earlier posts. This Vincent aka "Allegorithmic representative" seems very full of himself. Obviously, this is how Adobegorithmic deals with customers. Total lack of self-reflection and respect.

..and Mr. Gault, no, you are not funny.

Nothing has to be casted in stone forever. Adobe has seen the reaction of your user base. Why not swap over to your current Allegorithmic license system? Perpetual licenses plus maintenance gives everbody more confidence.
(... I have still my CS 6Ex, waiting for a perpetual upgrade, wanna some money Adobe, eh? ...)

Ok, we have to accept your decision. And vice versa. How about a poll how the A-license system should look like in the near future?



Once again nothing at all has been decided. We noticed (and already knew) that perpetual license would be on top of the list of the concerns (even if ironically it's by far the least purchased option, but the fact that "it's possible" is key)

So as we don't do bullshit messages: nothing is decided yet, multiples options are being discussed, for you guys, for current Adobe customers, so there are good chances to see different options to fit the different needs. So wait and see on this one.

Why is is so hard to understand??? perpetual license might have been by far the least purchased option, because WE CHOSE TO SUPPORT YOU on a monthly basis and we got source points for it. your future/ our future looked bright. now you playing smart with us?! if this id your humour then I gotta say it's neither funny nor entertaining. you are so sure of yourselves.. let's see how this plays out and where you will be in 5 years' time.  ...perhaps in a tent under some bridge ?!?

Hey everyone! for people who don't know me, I'm Vincent, tech artist & community manager at Allegorithmic/Adobe.

Before to jump into explanations, this thread is meant to follow this one (that I am going to lock to pursue the conversation here):,27494.0.html

Part 1 will remain public: it is a great testimony/snapshot of the passion and complexity of our community, that we can use internally to support/push some ideas.

So why I'm doing this?

By making this new announcement, we knew that the reactions would be strong and passionate, and honestly, we are not surprised (even if of course it's tough to read, especially, when it comes from a community you have been taking care for years, but I'll come to this later on). So yes it was heartbreaking but expected.

One of the consequences, is that part 1 of this thread has become so noisy, that it's unreadable: most of the posts are legit concerns, expressed in good or bad manners, then we have insults, then we have some conspiracy theories, then we have people trying to tell people to calm down, etc...

But now that the shock of the announcement is behind us, I think we can pursue the discussion in a more constructive/efficient manner, with the same arguments/skepticism/feeling, but without the conspiracy theories, insults, and obvious trolling. this is not representative of the community I have been talking to the last 4 years.

You can read the 50+ pages of part 1, but I'll try to extract/summarize some of the main concerns/reactions that have been expressed:

  • "We are scared to lose perpetual licenses because Adobe uses perpetual licenses"
  • "You betrayed us by going with Adobe"
  • "You guys took the wrong decision"
  • "Adobe just buy to destroy a competitor. They destroy everything thay touch"
  • "Now I'll pay 4 times more to get access to your product"
  • "you guys are naive if you think you will be able to change Adobe/impose your ideas/preserve you identity"
  • "You guys are using "for now", on many topics, so we are doomed,"
  • "You guys, sold your soul to the evil just for $$$"
  • "You guys will drop Linux support"
  • "You guys had a great support, and it will become shitty"
  • "You guys will lose all the innovation your demonstrated in the past"
  • "Substance Painter and/or Substance Designer will disappear"
  • "You will not listen to us anymore"

If I forget an important topic: just ping me and I'll add it to the list.

Now we are going to answer this questions/concerns when possible. But please, accept that we don't have all the answers, as many things need to be defined. And don't speculate like crazy: it's useless, and most of the scennarii have been made on part 1.

You can remain skepticals, it's totally fair, and it will our goal to reassure you on many topics, but for  many of them it will be with facts and not with words.

On a personal point of view, please remind that you guys are talking to (the same) people: regardless of what you think, tell it the proper way. We have always remained really close to our community (and this will be the case in the future), at a distance where you can be hugged, but also be slapped in the face: at this distance, anything that we do or tell is affecting people. So let's remain close and talk the way we are used to.

wow, your summary of things... so patronizing..clearly shows your lack of respect for the people who were the wind under your wings

We have had some issues with login for a few days. Technical issues happens sometimes :)

I don't trust anything that comes out of your mouth...for now. ...sorry

Substance Share still doesn't work. This says something already.

what do you mean? works fine here

This thread

We're all for listening to feedback and discussing with you but for the love of the holy spaghetti monster, please stop predicting a future we know much more about than you do.

All will be cleared up in due time and your fears will be defused.

firts off, wow, in the light of current events you really got some balls posting those condescending images and words earlier in this thread, buddy
have you read this:   ?????

As soon as I learned about Adobe acquiring Allegorithmic I cancelled my sub and switched to perpetual.
I would have let the sub run indefinitely just to support you guys. Now I will stick with the last perpetual release of SP and SD just like I do with my CS 6 Master Collection. If Adobe will turn off the license servers I'll use antiidiotics. It was fun while it lasted. Now Adobe and its goons can go .... themselves. You traitors need Jesus!

speaking of which, I am somewhat glad I didn't sell my 3D Coat license.

au revoir

we can look at it that way too

the world is going to shit, france is going to shit (look at the never ending yellow vest protests in France and Macron the puppet) most likely Sebastien sold Allegorithmic for a lot of zeros to Adobe in order to ensure a good rest of life for him and his family. can you blame him?


Recently, I downloaded the Halloween zombie crumpled skin material for learning purposes.
In the picture there are elongated bulges which I can't find a node-network for in the accompanying sbs file.
I am trying to recreate the effect with Shape > Splatter or Shape > Tile Generator, but neither way seems to yield the desired effect.
Does someone know how the creator of the material (Nicolas Paulhac ?) managed to achieve those bulge shapes?


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