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Messages - Recon03

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You are going to unwrap this different, use Sphere projection, and a different texturing process... for things like this.  Here is an example.

Substance PainterSubstance Painter - Baking - Re: Baking never works
 on: March 26, 2021, 04:53:01 pm 
Hello everyone,

i tried to bake a high to a low poly mesh multiple times with different objects but it never worked. So i´m trying to locate the error.

For the most recent object this was my workflow:
I modled a trident inside Blender than used a subdivision modifier to make it look more smooth. I dublicated the object the one with sub division is going to be the the high mesh and the other one the low poly.
I aplied all modifiers inside blender and than exported as fbx. I made a 3rd mesh with an aplied solidify modifier as cage.

In Substance i only wanted to bake the normal and ao map on my low poly. And like always it looks totaly messed up.
The lowpoly mesh has also proper uv.

Any suggestions for the complete process and can be some failures.

All Meshes are attatched

I tossed it in Maya, and noticed you have a lot of floating verts, normal issues and much more. Be sure to clean up the mesh. Two thing I noticed be sure to reset your position, zero everything out. This way everything lines up.  Third thing, I noticed artifacts all over your high poly model. Be sure to clean that up. Render it you will see it on the High poly.. Your edges are going to cause it as well on the HI-POLY.  Those are a few things I seen, after about 2 mins . So, there may be more, but I don't have much more time to spend on it. SO start there.

You also have holes on the HIGH poly mesh...See image.. cap those off.

I said this since the first day and they said I was wrong, I been in this industry since 1980...... I been right about Adobe, and why I left and still use CS6..I own CS2, 3, 4, 5, 6...Substance Designer, Painter every version ever sold.....

...  I also started  using Substance since the first version sold..... and left Adobe due to this crap...SO GUESS what I was right!!!     

I been in this industry a long time, I'm a freelancer, and make my money, and work for many indies and others....and we can't have monthly fees for 20 different programs as artist yes this happens......   Modo charges 400$ a year, 2k for the software.....  Fine with me..... you guys can raise your cost, it would be fine by me...but this RENT software, NO....I will NOT pay more, just to RENT it......I buy my homes, my cars....that is called an investment...when you buy software its called an investment..

when you rent something, its called borrowing.... we wanted choice. I was fine with you only selling on Steam....Now your greedy behind, wants to take that away.....ADOBE, you really are not in this to be good for the industry or indies all.. that is clear...  You can say its business, sure....  I would agree, if its a cost thing, but guess what raise the cost then....That solves that issue, but its not, its called Control/GREED)  ...and you know I know that..Disgusting... no reason to get rid of the Steam version...NONE.

I will NO LONGER support you.... period..... Epic has Mixer folks, Affinity has a program like Photoshop but just as good.... There is Mari, which is expensive, not really for indies but its there....  ( I own the others , and now I will pick up Mari as I'm already a Modo user since I left Auto Desk for pulling the same crap........

and plenty of open source...Like Substance, this pushes other developers to make something new and it will, this industry changes a lot...  The support for engines like Unity and Unreal are total crap for Substance...and it shows, I have supported them and spoke highly for years.....but I will NOT anymore..and I work with MANY developers...and people...... I mentored for a long time, I will be sure everyone stands clear of this greedy behavior....NO to tiny updates, and Sub crap, this is what ADOBE does.....CS6, is still not much different than the new Photoshop..... Then Adobe, tried to take those away to, like that was legal.....That is what these greedy companies do, sell you a license and say its yours , and years later, try and take it away...Auto Desk, and Adobe are the two biggest greedy , companies for this industry...... 


Same issue, and tried, 3 browsers/

I was about to make a post about this.. glad its not only me..

yes devs we are doing it right, I have used Substance since day 1. we hovered over to get  the different formats, SBS, or SBAR does not work on hover..only when you click down load  with out hover does Sbar work.,..

So right now we can't use SBS formats at all...Which is upsetting since I only use....SBS check out how some are made.. for learning process... So right now source is useless to people like myself...

I hope this is fixed soon. thanks.

I know it not out yet, but Pre-orders are up. and I was unable to find the info on what is being added to 2020. I plan to buy regardless, but I would like to see what is coming.  Is there a post anywhere that I may have missed ( yes I googled it)

I was unable to find much on this so any info would be great.

SubstanceSubstance - Discussions - Re: Why is substance so expensive?
 on: December 10, 2019, 02:14:53 am 
This is common, typically it cost more, I make Substances and sell textures. Custom work as well and I charge much more. so this is pretty cheap for the industry.

Please help me to sleep better:
Adobe seams to effectively shut down their CS6 (not cloud) using customers softwares although they bought them legally, if they don't upgrade into CC subscription.
So... how much can YOU as the former Allegoritmic team keep us protected from such a move by Adobe?
How much would an upgrade of a perpetual license cost? Only on steam? We bought the last perpetual in your store.

as much as I dislike Adobe nonsense, not true , CS6 works just can contact them for the downloads as well.. I had to re-install last night, but the download was gone... so I suggest contact them for support...we bought these, they cant just shut them down, that is illegal.....perpetual licenses....are life time...they can stop support sure...but they cant shut down your licenses....period..   only thing they can do is stop support, but they can't  turn off your CD keys.....sorry cant happen... You cant sell someone a perpetual license and decide years later to say its no longer perpetual licenses.... Thankfully we have laws in the US..... just like CS3, they tried that nonsense too....they can't..

better off doing this in your 3d program.

From here:

These future offerings will be primarily subscription-based, but we will continue to offer indie perpetual licenses. We believe that when the content and services offered in a subscription package evolve and improve at a steady pace, the subscription model is the best way for us to innovate fast, continuously improve your tools, and bring you more value.

Granted that doesn't say much or discuss specifically "what" they will still offer perpetual on (other then Indie in general..which could mean all Indie or only specific IDK) but it does show at least some thought into trying to keep it as an option.

I guess we will see,  if they went FULL sub only, and did not allow us to buy it..I would be gone, I left Adobe before and Auto Desk due to that, as I been a long time user of Substance, Auto Desk and Adobe, but if they pull that nonsense and do sub only, I would drop Substance....  and I know many others that would as well..... Substance needs to understand indie companies, need to be able to buy software ....and have it at any given time....we can't sub part time, and can't afford to be paying  x 10 more..... just because Adobe is greedy..  This is what is ruining both Adobe now and Auto Desk and they know it....   if the cost was the problem charge more for it.... but to have sub only, is crazy,  we cant do business that way..

Substance Alchemist - Discussions - Re: Sub only?
 on: March 25, 2019, 03:07:06 am 
According to the Alchemist page, it doesn't appear to be in beta anymore.. and it's available via subscription only.

I am a perpetual license holder with active yearly maintenance.  From what I can tell, in order to use Alchemist, I need to spend an extra $240/yr for a subscription to the same software+maintenance that I've already paid for.

Where are the options for those of us who prefer to be perpetual license holders?

I haven't seen anything official that states that we will get access to Alchemist in the future... Please tell me I'm wrong on this.

This has been my concern, as a user of Substance, paying for every program since they released....I feel they smack us in the face....They did it with Source and now this program.......Mega scans tried this sub only for Mixer, it didn't last...Substance will find that as well...

People want choices, and we feel, we give them more money right off the bat, you would think, they would understand this but they don't...they would rather try to get MORE money from us..

Substance Alchemist - Discussions - Re: Sub only?
 on: March 25, 2019, 02:54:00 am 
I don't get why people are so against subscriptions? At least with these guys, we get 30 points per month with our subscriptions. So for $20 a month, I not only get all the software updates, but I also get to download 30 assets from Substance Source. My library grows every month. I also subscribe to Megascan for the same reason.
These apps are useless without content to use within them. Plus, I really do believe the subscription model is a better way to go when your budgeting. It is a lot easier to pay out a smaller fixed cost every month than it is to have to come up with a much larger one-time payment every year to upgrade. When you add all those together it can be quite a big bite out of one's bank account. I also subscribe to Adobe CC. It is way less painful nowadays I hated paying all at once for upgrades. And maybe it is just me, but I find it far easier to write these subscriptions off at tax time every year also.

I will say it  this way for some of you that don't run a business, or understand... or maybe want to see our point of view.....For example...If I sub to Modo, I bought Indie  4 years or so ago for 180$....and still have the tool update...
If I was someone who Subbed, I would of PAID  double that or more...and left with no tool...
12 dollars x  576 dollars.... and again left with nothing...... Since I bought it, I paid 180$ and was able to buy Full and get 180 dollars off......from Full as well, if I subbed, I would of GOT nothing.

if you are a game developer as I i'm. and many are...imagine paying subs, for Substance, Maya, modo Photoshop, and so on and on and on...That adds up per month...we make games... so we go 2 - 3 years no pay..imagine if we have to pay that every month, we would never be able to... we need our programs at any given time...that is HOW we make it in this business/...I ran a business for over 15 years, and now one for a game company, what matters more than anything the BOTTOM when your games are released...How much did you spend to make it....what is the profit.... Subs are a fact in the LONG RUN cost more money....and...Your LEFT with NOTHING.

I bought, Modo, Full, Maya Full, 2016 , Photoshop CS6....I owe NOTHING to any of them.... and we can use them any time we want..we have access..

If we where to sub to them....we would have nothing to use...

Its an investment, when buying these programs...When you sub, there is no investment at the end of the day.... and you are left with nothing after wards, unless you keep forking out money, and if you ever made a game, you would understand what I mean, any company who has, and ran a business, knows what I mean....  If you do this for fun....Sub all you want..Not all of us do this for fun..or PART time...

So as an example.  modo Full cost 1717 dollars...  if I subbed it would be 600 dollars a year..Lets x it by three years... 1800. ..and when done, I'm left with nothing....I still OWN Modo and its very useful.... and I can make a living still....  The list goes on, see some people may use it once in awhile a sub would make sense...but for US, it cost way more money as it is Steam takes 30% after taxes, and cost of software we are lucky to see 35%..of  our profits...with Subs, and yes I used to sub to software, it cost us way the end of the day...... and we are LEFT with NOTHING..     Maya 2016, I have a 20 man license, PAID in full, this means I won't have to pay 300-400 dollars a month per person...... Since 2016...... It works great and its PAID for and we used for more than one game, client work and much the investment of buying software at the end of the day is cheaper and we are NOT left with nothing..

Bottom line, many people in the gaming industry don't have any business sense... sadly, and need to understand what helps them, stay in business, and that is investments. good ones and bottom line, are just some of them.....

I hope that helps you understand our side...

Substance, we paid 50-75 dollars a year..  for Designer, and another for Painter.  I own mine for ever... as others do. also you don't always need to upgrade either..if someone don't need something or want...

You guys pay 230 dollars...  and your left with NOTHING... So keep paying more for it....I see subs as useful to people who do this part time... or for a hobby...but anyone else who does this full time, you are paying way more..... Unless you sub once a blue moon, when you need it...Well, most people, want access, at any time...we can't wait..  So subs may work for some, and I'm fine with subs out..

but we want choices....period...and we don't want, companies raping us...why do you think Auto Desk is having issues now??? SUBS only...

WHy do you think Adobe is having issues with Photoshop.....same reason... people that run a business or do this full time, want choices....period.

Substance Alchemist - Discussions - Sub only?
 on: March 20, 2019, 02:13:20 am 
I suspect, from what I read, this will be sub only??? if so, so it begins....Adobe...

I know its Open beta, but read that it will have  a Sub, and nothing else.


(I'm a newbie so please ignore my overdose explanations...)
I want to make a scene that will contains about 20-30 concrete blocks. Those blocks will have some damage decals on them as you can see attached images (ignore metal parts in them please). I will make this with C4D and Redshift.

1) modeling all block decals does not seem right to me is it correct?
2) Lets say I have a cube mesh with high polygons. Without any modeling can I give it a look like as attached with just a good textures?
3) What tools should I use?
4) How should I proceed? could you give me a workflow?

I've been trying to solve this problem for 5 days nearly. I could not achieve. Especially displacement mapping is not what should it be like as attached.

thank you

Wish I could find what is a common technique that many of  us , in the larger industry for games.  but we tend to use caps for damage like this.  I think some environment artist posted on a GDC but I cant check.

So for example, you have a wall, and the edges you wanted to look damaged.. You would make the whole. with your 3d software, but the edges, you can, use Zbrush, Designer, what ever.. but you would use a 3d model and act as a cap, where the damage is..add the texture to it.  the other model may have a brick wall, normal looking one, or what ever you want. This has to do with the edge itself, so it performs well and looks good.

So to reiterate , use something like Zbrush, for the damage, or what ever you have....You can bake down that for performance and add more detail with Designer...and add to those caps...
the model itself you can texture any way you like...  but the edges is what matters the most and where the caps come into place..They are just basic  shapes, to fit over where the edges are... but keep the caps simple, so you would use a combo of Zbrush, or what ever it is and Designer... to make these.   it works well.  We use this for broken bricks, and holes in walls all the time.

Is there a timeline for when perpetual licence will no longer be offered? If that is the case?

I would like to purchase perpetual licence before it's no longer available. To get the "final" version. But not sure how soon that could happen. Weeks? Months?

I think most of us think that SP and SD 2019 will be the final perpetual versions and it could be that the last chance to buy them at discount was actually last year in the steam black friday sale. I'm kicking myself for only getting SD2019 in the sale and not SP2019. I thought I would have another chance. There's a lunar new year sale on steam right now and substance products have no discount. It would be reasonable to assume they won't get a discount in the summer sale either or the halloween or black friday sales and then around xmas sale time they will probably quietly take everything off steam.

I'm really interested to see how they are going to spin this as an "exciting new licencing plan" to "benefit customers".

by there comments, and how Adobe handles things, I would agree with you, this will be our last version after supporting them from NEARLY day 1 and we buy many licenses... its just nonsense..  but hey, they will PAY the price for going that route, we all know this will happen...Watch and see..   (

"We are scared to lose perpetual licenses because Adobe does not use perpetual licenses"
Edit: if you have a perpetual license, you will keep it, it's your. For the future hypothetical offers (will we still offer it?) this is one of the topics, where we don't have visibility yet, so you have the right to be skeptical until we deliver a clear model.

"I'll pay way more for the same products"
Even if I seriously doubt it, once again we don't have visibility so you can remain skeptical until we deliver.

I haven't read part 1, but as soon as I heard this news I was so sure how this would end up that I just didnt look any further into it.  Its good to see some communication but as of yet it will take some convincing that this was a good move, why would I say this?  Experience from many applications  being sold on over the years has shown me the trend is to go subscription, eventually once the calm has settled, or some have moved on.

Autodesk went subscription, Adobe went subscription, Im stuck on CS5, the once Luxology was taken over by The Foundry, they went subscription but offered perpetual still but under such high prices it redirects the potential user to subscribe.  Iray, Arnold and many other render engines are now only subscription.  This year my render engine of use Vray4C4D was taken over by Chaos group, no more perpetual licence. Corona now its out for C4D is subscription only.

When you say "if you have a perpetual license, you will keep it"  I think this will hold true, this same statement was given for Vray4C4D.  You will keep what you currently have, but next year there is no upgrade path perpetually, your simply stuck at the version your on, but you can subscribe if you want, iis this what you mean when you say "you will keep it"?

Where subscriptions and perpetual options are given its at a advantage to make sure subscription options look cheaper by offering the perpetual licences at higher prices, or maintenance.   I do remain skeptical because why would anyone make a deal without looking at the ins and outs of the licencing before the sale?  The visibility should be clear already, but maybe not as to if its heading subscription only but in how it will be implemented or put to the current users, or at what point.  Do Adobe offer any perpetual options currently?  This is a genuine question, maybe you do, but if you don't why would Substance be any different?

Why do so many not like subscription?  I can see the advantage in subscription if your using the software everyday, your making a good income from it, sure you always keep up to date.  Development can move faster too.  The down side is not everyone whats to hire software.  Not everyone feels the need to have the latest version when it may not offer any features that are benefit to them, that choice is taken away.  No longer does the upgrade sales rely on a good well featured upgrade, its rather your get what your given, and you will keep paying for it as you don't own it, I don't like this arm up your back method.  Even the current system in place points the user  to subscribe as without it Substance Source its absent, but at least the option is there, and the rent to own option I think is the best option that sits right in the middle.

If you Adobe had a rent to own option id be in right now but to rent all my software every year and own nothing but the use of it would be a very very expensive way to go.  Times are getting hard for many, and stability of life is on the fine line.  This software takes many years to master, much investment of time and money for training is put in, yet if for some reason one cant afford to keep a subscription they have nothing but files on their computer.


I disagree, as a Modo, User, it actually cost less...most artist in the industry will need Modo..... all year, it will COST, Auto Desk, Maya cost before around 3 grand..  now its like 300 a month? I didn't check.....NOT everyone updates or can every year...SO that cost a company......smaller indies are the future and are trying to make it, so it cost us WAY MORE money, that is a fact, I know I ran gaming business and been apart of larger and smaller ones... So the hobbist an sub all they want, but many programs want you to PAY for a year.. ahead..once that SUB drops your left with no way to make a living and YOU OWN NOTHING... this is why many do not RENT  a home or an apartment, your LEFT with NO INVESTMENTS....companies make it because of SMART investments, the future is smaller companies and others...If Substance, now Adobe  burns, us, they will LOSE many loyal PAYING customers, and THEY WILL MAKE much less as Adobe does today....AUTO DESK, has the same problem,, they make MUCH less, due to doing this...THE FUTURE in gaming, and many other companies are SMALLER companies...SO....subs work for people who do this for fun, or part time, but companies, NEED it yearly.....daily...

PS: Modo yearly feee :  $599 USD   after that  year your left with NOTHING...

second year,  599

Third year 599

4th year 599..

Your paying 2300 around..and LEFT WITH NOTHING.......

License YOU KEEP 1717 dollars...You KEEP for ever..   not every company needs the newest version either, but if we did, we pay maint. fee. 400 I think.  but we don't need to, I can wait year 4, and pay 600  = 2300 I still OWN my software and can make a living an update to date.

See the trend here, this is called SMART business...

if someone don't use it that often fine, a Sub works...

but for the MANY who do this for a living, IT DON'T WORK... and cost more, and they will put  us our of business...and that is the issue, Indies are the future ......Look at Steam... and Epic now..Discord and more..

So these companies like Auto Desk, Adobe need to wake up ..

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