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Messages - LAdair

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I'm content with the firm answer that our Indie subscriptions can and will be available to convert to perpetual licenses for $49 after completing the 12 month requirement.
Hold on.. I was told something else when I contacted the support via email!

In a series of email exchange, I wrote: "Do you mean that the option to convert to perpetual (by paying $49 at the end) may not be available?"
And the answer was: "Indeed, the option might not be available in 12 months if we change our licensing offer. I cannot give any guarantees on this, as this hasn't been decided. However, you can be sure that if we decide to discontinue this offer within the next 12 months, you will be given the option to purchase a perpetual license beforehand"

This is how I understand this: they might remove the option to convert for $49 anytime, maybe just before you would reach the end of the 12-months. However, you will be able to buy a perpetual at an unknown price, but probably not for $49.

I would prefer if the team's answers were more coherent. But they are not, so I don't trust that the $49 option will be there. It is a lottery "for now" :)

I asked in part 1. Here's a screenshot of my post replying to Jeremie's answer:


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well said Vincent
+1

The bad thing about speculation is we end up worrying about the worst that can happen.

The good thing about speculation is, after worrying about the worst that can happen, we are relieved when the reality is not so bad.

(My attempt to add a bit of levity to the conversation.  ;D )

As frustrating as it is to be in the dark, it makes sense to me the Allegorithmic team doesn't want to give out details of the current internal conversation, whether or not there is a legal impediment to saying anything—And if that internal conversation isn't going in favor of the current Allegorithmic customers, I hope it goes on for ages! ;)

I'm content with the firm answer that our Indie subscriptions can and will be available to convert to perpetual licenses for $49 after completing the 12 month requirement. As a hobbiest, and a senior on a fixed income, I'm happy this option is still available to me.

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"We are scared to lose perpetual licenses because Adobe does not use perpetual licenses"
Edit: if you have a perpetual license, you will keep it, it's your.

Hey Vincent, I'm just having a hard time believing (in a good way) because I own a perpetual license and I love this software till death. So just to final double check, (anyone can reply to this), since I'm a perpetual license holder I get to keep using the software, of course, it's going to be outdated as soon as I am out of the one year update program right?

Thanks!

I know Vincent has already answered your question, but I'd like to add, I have Adobe CS6 Master Collection, perpetual license, and the programs I use continue to work. (On Win7 x64 and Win10 x64.) Adobe has never tried to cripple the software, nor have I ever had Adobe try to strong arm me into signing up for CC.

I hope this reassures you, (and others,) about your perpetual license(s) for Allegorithmic software.

All true L'Adair, my dad uses Lightroom 5 and it runs and runs and runs....until he has to update his computer for a newer one. Since I doubt it he will have an install file (nope I asked) somewhere stashed save and sound. That I have.....on multiple places, disks and media (and OS-ses). What I'm worried about are dependencies. What when I buy a new videocard (lets say a RTX2080 TI) would that baby still pay ball with 2018.3, somehow I would hope so....or I'll have to take my business elsewhere. Or a new driver for my old card is not compatible anymore.....there can be pitfalls.

While I have the Master Collection, I don't have everything installed. Graphics and Video programs. Bridge. Acrobat. I use Photoshop far more than any of the others combined. I bought a new computer in Oct'16 just for 3D, with a GTX 1080. I deactivated and uninstalled everything from the computer I retired and turned around and installed them all on the new computer with zero problems. (And that's with files I downloaded from Adobe when CS6 was released. I have copies on both computers, but I really should back those up to DVD!)

I haven't seen any issues running the software with the 1080. Of course, the RTX line uses a new architecture, but the GTX series went to Pascal from Maxwell… and I expect Maxwell is several generations past the time CS6 was current software.

(I know what you mean about drivers, though. I have a scanner that hasn't had drivers updated since Win'98. It is a far better scanner than any I've bought since, but due to lack of support, it's little more than a boat anchor now.)

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"We are scared to lose perpetual licenses because Adobe does not use perpetual licenses"
Edit: if you have a perpetual license, you will keep it, it's your.

Hey Vincent, I'm just having a hard time believing (in a good way) because I own a perpetual license and I love this software till death. So just to final double check, (anyone can reply to this), since I'm a perpetual license holder I get to keep using the software, of course, it's going to be outdated as soon as I am out of the one year update program right?

Thanks!

I know Vincent has already answered your question, but I'd like to add, I have Adobe CS6 Master Collection, perpetual license, and the programs I use continue to work. (On Win7 x64 and Win10 x64.) Adobe has never tried to cripple the software, nor have I ever had Adobe try to strong arm me into signing up for CC.

I hope this reassures you, (and others,) about your perpetual license(s) for Allegorithmic software.

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Hello Vincent. Nice to meet you.

Like others, I have my doubts about Adobe's intentions in acquiring Allegorithmic. However, to lock in my ability to convert to a perpetual license, I signed up for the Indie License subscription when I heard the news. (My original plan was to wait a few more months, until I was actually creating things I needed to texture.)

Anyway, after years of editing other people's writing, I couldn't help but notice this sentence isn't quite right:

  • "We are scared to lose perpetual licenses because Adobe uses perpetual licenses"

I believe you meant to say: "We are scared to lose perpetual licenses because Adobe uses subscription-only licensing."

I wish only the best for you guys. Prove us all wrong. Please.  :)

-Anita
 aka L'Adair

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Still for anyone proclaiming they need professional software, 10 bucks a month is ridiculously cheap. No matter how long you pay it, Photoshop for 10 bucks a month is a steal. Even if you paid this for 10 years, you'd still be at a total of what the software would probably cost by then if you bought a perpetual license. But you also got all updates on the way that you would have had to buy separately with perpetual. Whether or not you wanted/needed those updates is a different topic of course, but that's the math.

I think it all comes down to whether or not one considers software a "product" or a "service."

For decades, software has been sold as a product. Whether you download it, or get it on disk, you have a somewhat tangible file, (or files,) in your possession that allows you to install the software on your computer. If you get a new computer, you can use the file/disk to install the software on your new computer, (with some limitations spelled out in the license.)

Adobe is trying to change the perception of software as a product, redefining it as a service, something you pay for the use of for a finite period of time. Like cable or cell service. If you buy into that definition, then you won't have a problem with the fact you lose access when you cannot pay the subscription service.

But what happens when it's not just one software suite? What happens when we have to pay Adobe for all our graphics programs, and Microsoft/Apple/etc. for an operating system and office apps, and who knows who else for what other programs that become necessities in our workflow?

What happens is more people turn to open source software, donating to projects that can't be bought up or sold out.

In short, software as a service is not a sustainable business model. I don't care how big Adobe is. Their current success with subscription-only software has other companies looking to do the same. At some point, the need to pay subscriptions for software will outstrip the market's ability to pay. New businesses will be started by people who turned their back on proprietary software, and who won't turn back to it later. Those businesses will be looking to hire people who are experienced running the open source programs they use. Demand for people who are comfortable and productive using Linux and Linux based programs will become the hiring norm.

And software companies that relied on the subscription-only format will be scrambling to sell perpetual licenses again. But I predict it will be too little, too late and the markets those companies hope to win back will have all but dried up.

Allegorithmic did it right. A subscription service coupled with perpetual licenses. Customers could chose what made the most sense for their use and budget. And if they wanted to, they could convert a subscription to a perpetual license. And once they bought the PL, they could still buy into a maintenance plan.

As a previously loyal Adobe customer, I would be delighted if the culture of Allegorithmic infected Adobe and brought about change. But with decades of experience and observation of large corporations, I'm afraid it will be this wonderful Allegorithmic culture that withers and dies. I pray the Allegorithmic software doesn't suffer the same fate.

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Are posts being deleted here or am I going crazy ?

No. You're not going crazy. And considering the comments that aren't being removed, I'd say those that are have gone way over the line.

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I would feel a whole lot better if someone with the authority to do so would come in here and reassure us, specifically, that we will still be able to convert our Indie License subscriptions to a Perpetual License for the advertised $49!
The answer is yes, and Allegorithmic IS Adobe today, our word has as much power as any other spokesperson from Adobe.

Thank you.

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WHAT IS GOING TO HAPPEN TO PERPETUAL LICENCES????

If you read the Adobe press release they've made it clear that perpetual licenses will not exist and it will be under the umbrella of CC.

Just like they've done with past perpetual licenses (both their own, and acquired) they will terminate the licensing servers and force you to subscribe. If you take a look into the past as an example when it will occur, probably within the first year, definitely in the second.

I am definitely expecting adobe to attempt invalidating our perpetuals. Any idea if we have any kind of legal ground for a class action lawsuit when it happens?
No need for a lawsuits guys, you keep your perpetual licenses, no doubt about that. You own it. :)

I know a lot of people are concerned that they'll lose the use of their perpetual licenses, but as the licensee of the CS6 Master Collection that continues to work fine, (and even gets the occasional update to Acrobat 10,) I don't expect Adobe to do something so stupid as to make the software unusable. Too many legal issues with something like that, and big corporation or not, law suits drain profits.

However, many of us are concerned that our right to convert our Indie License subscription to a Perpetual License for $49 after 12 months is going to be taken away. Can you assure us that Adobe will honor what is still currently being advertised on your website? Better yet, can an official representative of Adobe come in here and give us that assurance?

The thing is, while Allegorithmic is located in France, it is now part of a US based company and therefore subject to the laws of the United States and the Federal Trade Commission. The FTC not only frowns on false and/or deceptive advertising, but have the authority to levy very hefty fines on companies that engage in it. Those fines are levied on a per incident basis. It wouldn't take very many complaints by those of us who signed up for the subscription path to a perpetual license but were later denied the option to get the FTC to investigate. As I have a screenshot of the offer, taken yesterday, (and I assume others have taken screenshots as well,) it will be relatively easy to prove the offer was still being advertised even after the Adobe acquisition of Allergoritmic.

So it makes sense to me that Adobe will choose to honor the offer for any who signed up for the Indie License while the offer is advertised on the website. Anything less than that would not be "fair" to Allegrorithmic customers, old and new. Not to mention end with Adobe being scrutinized by the FTC, something else that has the very real potential to drain their profits.

However, I would feel a whole lot better if someone with the authority to do so would come in here and reassure us, specifically, that we will still be able to convert our Indie License subscriptions to a Perpetual License for the advertised $49!

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A number of years ago, I was a member of a stock photo club owned and operated by Fotolia. The Dollar Photo Club was a $10 monthly subscription with 10 images a month. Additional images were $1 each. Commercial use was included, though an extended license was available and required for some situations. The neat thing was, the image credits didn't expire, they carried over. I might only use one image in a month, but then in another month need several. I was always covered and with an easy to budget $10.

Then Adobe bought Fotolia.

The club stayed open and the subscription stayed the same. In fact, nothing changed except no one could sign up anymore. Any attempt to sign up sent you to the new Adobe Images site, where all the stock images previously available on Fotolia were now available for $10 per image.

I know you see where this is leading. At some point, (six months, maybe more. I really don't remember,) Adobe closed down the Dollar Photo Club and we were forced to create an account with Adobe Images or lose any unused image credits. Instead of those credits being good until used, they expired one year after our forced migration to Adobe Images.

We were offered a better subscription deal than the general public, if we signed up within a specific time frame, However, the better deal was for a set number of months. After that, our subscriptions would be the same, and we'd pay the same as everyone else.

In the end, I lost something like 78 image credits, (or $78,) because I was unable to use all the stored credits before the end of the year.

I was offended when Adobe went to a subscription only model. The problem I had then, and still have today, is there isn't an exit plan for loyal customers. Fortunately, I have the CS6 Master Collection. Even so, I'd have bought into the subscription model, which at the time would have cost about the same as an annual upgrade, but in 12 smaller monthly payments. But knowing I'd lose access to my own work when I could no longer afford the subscription, (because there are things in CC that are not available in CS6 and which won't work in CS6,) was a deal breaker. I'd have been happy with just getting the then current copy of Photoshop at the end of 5-7 years of subscriptions, but that's not an option.

So I said Goodbye to Adobe products, and continue to use programs from the CS6 era.

Given my first hand experiences with both the Adobe software, (and their don't-give-a-damn Customer Service,) and how Adobe treated the Dollar Photo Club customers after acquiring Fotolia, I am not optimistic about Allegorithmic being acquired by Adobe. To say the least.

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