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Messages - JLeeSoloDev

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Jeremie, what was the goal of the survey 10 days ago?
To Give Adobe users database?
To monitor how many of your user subscribed to CC already?
Who is the winner?

We send out the same general survey every year around that time to have a sense of where the 3D world is gearing towards. It helps us define where our own products are going and what we should work on next or improve.

There was no question related to Creative Cloud or Adobe in the survey.

You know what is sad Jeremie, from when you guys announce the acquisition to going forward, your Adobe Team's words no matter how righteous it may be will always be criticize. Even if you guys come up with innovative updates. Your community sees that Adobe Company tagline and criticism will pursue. That is the damage you the new Adobe team have done to your brand and in the 3d community.

You don't have to believe me, your new Adobe Team have been seeing it already.

Wow, I never seen so many negativity across the board (Social Media). No matter how your Adobe Staff sugarcoats and persuade confidence, they just get buried by negative responses. In light, I saw some die-hard fans who like the CC approach (of course they weren’t many). You guys have like 1K+ reactions on Facebook that most of it is Sad Faces, Angry Faces, Laughing Faces, and Shocked Faces. At least you guys have over 100 thumbs up.

Well, when you guys announce Substance now in CC, I’m sure it’ll get better. You even got some people already on CC who never touched a 3D application excited. You guys were prepared for this though, so I can’t wait for your next big announcement that will overturned all this negativity.

PS: it really is quite entertaining, its like watching a soap opera. You definitely got people glued to their seats for sure.

This was just too funny on Reddit.

Sorry Adobe (formerly known as Allegorithmic), but you expected this, right.

This just in about Quixel:

From the Foundry forums:
Quote from MarcinB : I hope that Adobe will remember about different pricing for Indie (single freelancers with small year income).

I share a similar sentiment...but for Quixel's upcoming Suite 3.

Teddy, Quixel founder, posted another of his heartfelt letters to his supporters on their closed-to-the-public facebook account (which someone re-posted on reddit). Basically saying Suite 3 will be standalone, it's being currently worked on, they're running out of cash but still managing. He also has indicated getting no support from Adobe when they reached out to them for issues with their existing toolset with a particular version or update to Photoshop. Basically unresponsive. (But no indication in the letter how this relates to Adobe getting in bed with Allegorithmic.)

Well, if they can release it sooner and fill the void. Attract all the disenfranchised ex-substance users into one camp again. That would help bring back "happy days" again for this particular community. And hopefully....they can copy Allegorithmic's store playbook where people have more buying options than just one. More than just a monthly subscription like what (sadly) Quixel currently offers for it's Mixer tool (but tiered, meaning you pay more depending on your revenue profile).

Support Quixel!

What is sad is this can go over 100 pages of mostly negativity feedback and it won’t do a damn thing. They are probably not listening anymore. I mean they knew this was going to happen, right. They have been trained by Adobe who has been getting negative feedback for years since starting subscription only. I bet its Adobe who prepared them for this.

Even if the community started to boycott, it won’t matter. The community is comprised of just insignificant little ants that can’t do anything but to find alternatives, isn’t that right Adobe (formerly known as Allegorithmic). Maybe if the community boycott the gaming companies who use substance because that’s what Adobe (formerly known as Allegorithmic) cater to now. Like Jerc said the gaming companies are happy with this change.

Just face the facts Substance will be part of CC (which they say will be a good thing in the long run, for Adobe that is.)

So, community wait for that great announcement of “Substance is now part of CC! All you have to do is pay for the rest of your lives!”

Been looking at 3DCoat and Z-Brush. They look interesting but come with a higher pricetag. Especially Z-Brush. Forget about Mari. 2000$?? get outta here.

ZBrush may cost a little more but once you buy its yours for life with upgrades for life. I bought my copy of ZBrush in 2007. Its the same license, more than 10 years of updates, not a penny more was asked of me. But you know what, because they didn't push me to buy or pay for upgrades or do anything underhanded I bought more licenses for my home computer and my work computer, and converted a few coworkers into liking and using ZBrush.

Pixologic is a company that has done everything right in terms of customer focus and customer priority. Other companies should take a good hard look at Pixologic and do what they did. Thats how you become a stable long term and loved company.

3D Coat has a serious problem that should send every artist screaming in the opposite direction. They've terminated and revoke licenses on the personal opinion of the owners that the artists work was obscene (like creating a nude sculpture,  a nude human form, excessive gore, or that felt it belittled or demeaned their religion) without refund.

See their own personal statement here:

I personally would never financially support a company that will actively take their personal beliefs into action with how they treat customers and their own personal works of art.

Ahahaha, oh my goodness, take a look at this. Yeah, they are not a viable alternative.

We would be really happy if 3DCoat could be used to create beautiful works of art to inspire and bring joy, and not provoke hatred, aggression to people, wizardry, witchcraft, addiction or carnality. We are mostly Christian team, so this question is especially sharp for us because we know that God's law treats hatred as murder and infidelity in mind as real adultery, and consequences of our sins influence the whole life.

Its not enforced, they say that out of kindness. They been actually railed by that before, that was a while ago. You can do whatever you want with the software. A professional from Blizzard is the one that recommended it to me he also use Substance too.


WTF!? I was really interested in getting a 3dcoat pro license, but.... dafuq did i just read!?

That is old news, I still have mine and lots of people and students use it. I went to UCF with over 60 thousand students. Look at Artstation. People use it because they have the best painterly style software out there but Substance is known for realism.

It really is a great program.

To the Adobe Staff formerly known as Allegorithmic (You said having a 5-letter word will be better, You were right).

You guys will probably not going to answer this, but you said you guys were prepared. So, you guys were really prepared of having over 40 pages of mostly negative reviews? I know some people step out of line and those had to be deleted (gotta keep at least a decent image). You even got the Foundry forums fired up. That place never got that busy LOL. Its also sad that you drove away some users to your competitors. Look at 3d Coat forums. Man, if they had a sale right now….

 I wonder how prepared were you? Also, do you have any good news that doesn’t include CC in the future. It’ll ease a lot of people.

Yes, my workflow is up until now Adobe-free as well. I'd like to keep it that way. Unless by some miracle in the near future I can use, start and operate my Substance Painter with perpetual license exactly as before without having to log into some cloud service and app that runs in the background or being reminded that I should do like all the other sheeple and subscribe.

Unless I know for certain, I have to start looking at alternatives so I'm prepared when/if things go Adobe-shaped.

Been looking at 3DCoat and Z-Brush. They look interesting but come with a higher pricetag. Especially Z-Brush. Forget about Mari. 2000$?? get outta here.

For texture-painting and or possibly create or manipulate models for games specifically...
...which one would be the easiest, most robust, useful and somewhat future-proof product?

I use Blender for my 3D modelling and animation needs and SP for texture-painting and the final output is Unreal Engine.
It looked like both 3DCoat and Z-Brush had retopology features and UV unwrapping... That looked interesting. I always struggle with retopology and at times UV unwrapping. I like sculpting in Blender too but its far from perfect, maybe these 2 programs can do it better?

Z-Brush looks difficult to learn though, some say the UI is annoying...
How about 3DCoat?

Which one would you recommend? I don't think Allegorithmic will answer this question though. But feel free to do so if you wish. Not saying I will abandon you just yet, but we will see how integrated you will become in the months and year ahead. As soon as CC comes up and I smell subscription or I cant use my SP like before, I'll switch.

I make games too and have used ZBrush for years and 3D Coat. 3D coat does the painterly style very well and that's what I use it for the most. They have Smart Materials for more realistic results but only dabbled a little with it. Its very robust though. I'm mostly a Stylized Character Artist so painterly style works for me. I was going to try stylize characters with a realistic PBR style. Heard great things about Substance so that is why I'm here. Unfortunately, I am not to fond of Adobe so back to learning 3D Coat fully. I use Modo and retopo there but 3D Coat has a pretty good retopoing tools and you can sculpt in there too. Some actual transition from ZBrush to 3d Coat for their Sculpting needs. I actually started out in ZBrush and in love with the software. I bought it when it was like $495 (I think that is right, sorry, been a while). Zbrush is the only software I recommend buying. I don't know how, but all their updates were free and I'm up to date. Even if they start charging I would pay for it. They have treated their community well and I have not seen so many informative tutorials for free and its right in their site. Its frankly better for visual artists. Don't worry about the interface. You can totally customize the interface and create your own shortcuts pretty fast. This leaves you with just the creation process. 3D Coat from my experience have been great. Try it out and see for yourself. They have a good community their also.

What are the chances that the price of switching to a perpetual license will increase by the time Adobe decides to let you make that announcement?


Jeremie, the reason why no one is believing you and you repeat yourself often is because you still have your old small company logo. You and your staff already speak like Adobe, so why not wear that billion-dollar logo. I mean you made it clear your Adobe so wear that brand proudly. No one from Adobe will yell at you, of course I can’t speak of your community. I have to say that past 2 years of Adobe being there have taught you guys well. You guys are fitting right in.

Remember you are not that company that your community use to love. You are a monster billion-dollar company now. Your bosses will get angry if you start saying stuff that don’t align with their values ($$$$$$$$$$$$).

PS: so enough of the sarcasm, sorry, now that I have to find an alternative I’m kind bitter. But really, change your logo so people start believing you guys. They won’t have a choice to not believe you because you have their logo and its plastered everywhere that you’re an Adobe Company.

Your community brought me here. The same community that praised your software and spread the word for you. So, thanks to the community. Now, that same community is being heard everywhere and spreading the word of how you basically stab them in the back with an Adobe knife. I been with Adobe before, the key word is before. Fortunately, I have found new softwares that gets my work done without Adobe’s subscription nightmare. I’m sure it didn’t hurt them one bit. I’m just a single grain of sand to them. They gave no choice it’s their way (Subscription) or their way (We own the market)

So, to the community, thank you for letting me know this before I bought Substance. As an indie dev trying to make a living I solely understand why you accepted the offer from a billion-dollar company. You guys started out small and now look where you are. I really mean it when I say Congratulations! Unfortunately, you work for a billion-dollar company that now you must keep happy. The key take away here your first priority is pleasing Adobe…………………………………………………………………………………… …………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………… than maybe your community.

The community should understand that no matter what you say and how angry you get at the end of the day what’s done is done. Even if you quit the software its not going to matter. As Jerc has said “Allegorithmic IS Adobe” now, Adobe will still make money no matter how many customers they upset.

Just see for yourselves:

Adobe Reports Record Revenue
Thursday, September 13, 2018 4:05 pm EDT

Digital Experience Subscription Revenue Grows 25 Percent Year-Over-Year in Q3
SAN JOSE, Calif.--(BUSINESS WIRE)--Adobe (Nasdaq:ADBE) today reported strong financial results for its third quarter fiscal year 2018 ended August 31, 2018.

Financial Highlights
Adobe achieved record quarterly revenue of $2.29 billion in its third quarter of fiscal year 2018, which represents 24 percent year-over-year revenue growth.

You are now just a grain of sand to Allegorithmic (I mean Adobe). Their software has become industry standard. That means big gaming companies will still be using Substance. Even Jerc or somebody in their staff (too many pages to look through) said the gaming companies are happy with the takeover/acquisition. What is sad is the small little guys will be impacted the most and they can’t do a thing about it. Except look for alternatives.

Oh, if your wondering how Perpetual license will be in the future maybe this will give you a hint.

From Buisnesswire:

“Allegorithmic and Adobe share the same passion for bringing inspiring technologies to creators,” said Sebastien Deguy, CEO and founder, Allegorithmic. “We are excited to join the team, bring together the strength of Allegorithmic’s industry-leading tools with the Creative Cloud platform and transform the way businesses create powerful, interactive content and experiences.”

Adobe’s strong track record of successfully integrating acquisitions will help further accelerate Allegorithmic’s product roadmap and go-to-market and extend its reach among enterprise, SMB and individual customers. Allegorithmic CEO and founder, Sebastien Deguy will take a leadership role in Adobe’s broader 3D and immersive design efforts as vice president, 3D and Immersive, reporting into Scott Belsky.

Allegorithmic tools are already offered as a subscription service to individuals and enterprise customers, and in the future Adobe will focus on expanding the availability of Allegorithmic tools via subscription. Later this year, Adobe will announce an update on new offerings that will bring the full power of Allegorithmic technology and Adobe Creative Cloud together.

CC and Perpetual does not mix. So even if they figure out a way to do it you still will need to download CC and its bloatware of .EXE and slowly and surely, they will get you on the Subscription train and if you want off you must pay a fee. They won’t give you a choice.

When you start out small your first priority is your community. They pay the bills; the more people you make happy the more customers you will get because the community will spread the word for you (that’s how I got here). Now that your Adobe, your first Priority is Adobe. The fact is the reason you won’t say what’s going to happen about your future plans (even if you wanted to) is Adobe is in control and you have no say in the matter. You are just a worker bee now.

So, when the dust settles you’ll announce Substance is part of CC and updates are only available through CC. So, for you Perpetual license users you will need to install CC.

You said it yourself you guys knew that people will not be happy. You can care less how many of your loyal users you upset. At the end of the day, you will still get a fat paycheck no matter what, FOR NOW.

To the Community:

Hope for the best plan for the worst. 

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