Messages

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Substance - News & Announcements - Re: Allegorithmic is joining the Adobe family

 on: January 25, 2019, 09:59:41 am 

3D Coat has a serious problem that should send every artist screaming in the opposite direction. They've terminated and revoke licenses on the personal opinion of the owners that the artists work was obscene (like creating a nude sculpture,  a nude human form, excessive gore, or that felt it belittled or demeaned their religion) without refund.

I would like to see your evidence that they have revoked anyone's licence, period, because I don't think it happened.

Go search the Polycount, Blender, and CG forums. Several instances occurred over the years. One piece of art as ridiculous as a mere humanoid crocodile as being blamed the reason of the license suspension (not sure what exactly was the issue with it if it was perhaps too close to appearing as devilish/serpent looking, not really sure, others may remember better what the explanation for it was).

But its definitely happened. Whether it still occurs or will continue to occur, dont know, I dont use it because of those issues and stay away from it. And whether they give more leeway to larger studios and basically do it to smaller indies or hobbyist only, again is uncertain but seems to be the case.

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Substance - News & Announcements - Re: Allegorithmic is joining the Adobe family

 on: January 25, 2019, 08:07:37 am 

Been looking at 3DCoat and Z-Brush. They look interesting but come with a higher pricetag. Especially Z-Brush. Forget about Mari. 2000$?? get outta here.

ZBrush may cost a little more but once you buy its yours for life with upgrades for life. I bought my copy of ZBrush in 2007. Its the same license, more than 10 years of updates, not a penny more was asked of me. But you know what, because they didn't push me to buy or pay for upgrades or do anything underhanded I bought more licenses for my home computer and my work computer, and converted a few coworkers into liking and using ZBrush.

Pixologic is a company that has done everything right in terms of customer focus and customer priority. Other companies should take a good hard look at Pixologic and do what they did. Thats how you become a stable long term and loved company.



3D Coat has a serious problem that should send every artist screaming in the opposite direction. They've terminated and revoke licenses on the personal opinion of the owners that the artists work was obscene (like creating a nude sculpture,  a nude human form, excessive gore, or that felt it belittled or demeaned their religion) without refund.

See their own personal statement here:

https://3dcoat.com/about-us/our-voice/

I personally would never financially support a company that will actively take their personal beliefs into action with how they treat customers and their own personal works of art.

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Substance - News & Announcements - Re: Allegorithmic is joining the Adobe family

 on: January 24, 2019, 10:26:39 pm 

I've been thinking about getting a perpetual licence, but now I've changed my mind completely.

The major problem is we see posts like this in response to "What will happen to perpetual licenses?".



Now, unless the word 'perpetual' means something different, you cannot just revoke those licences. My assumption is that when Substance is fully part of the Creative Cloud, Adobe will most likely give a subscription credit amount for those with "legacy" perpetual licenses, then move them over into the subscription model.

--

per·pet·u·al
/pərˈpeCH(o͞o)əl/Submit
adjective
1. never ending or changing.
2. occurring repeatedly; so frequent as to seem endless and uninterrupted.

--

I would suggest not defining these licenses as perpetual as it's extremely misleading. Adobe really needs to come forward and let everyone here know what we're looking at in terms of pricing for the future. Investing our time and energy into keeping Substance as part of our workflows is pointless unless we know it's something that will be sustainable for the long haul. Games are not developed overnight, and changing the pipeline during development costs a lot of time and money in new licenses and training.

If going forward perpetual licences will not be offered, but prior ones honored, then that's a different story and should be clarified.

While you are right in that they can't revoke them, but if the software relies on a licensing server, and if that server is "cost burden" to the company then they can shut it down. That isn't revoking your license, its still your license, just the infrastructure that supported it is now gone.

They've done this before, many times. As have many other software providers. I expect no difference now.

The only way they can assure people is by decoupling the need for a licensing server to install or check for a valid license. (Aka, like how the old Modo licenses worked ... you have your own license file and thats all you need).

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Substance - News & Announcements - Re: Allegorithmic is joining the Adobe family

 on: January 24, 2019, 10:13:46 pm 

WHAT IS GOING TO HAPPEN TO PERPETUAL LICENCES?

If you read the Adobe press release they've made it clear that perpetual licenses will not exist and it will be under the umbrella of CC.

Just like they've done with past perpetual licenses (both their own, and acquired) they will terminate the licensing servers and force you to subscribe. If you take a look into the past as an example when it will occur, probably within the first year, definitely in the second.

I am definitely expecting adobe to attempt invalidating our perpetuals. Any idea if we have any kind of legal ground for a class action lawsuit when it happens?

No, unfortunately. All they have to do is call it a new version and say that they are dropping all support for the old outdated version and there's nothing you can do.

If we download the license file and choose the activate via license file option does it still check with the license servers?

Most likely does. Most modern software packages do.

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Substance - News & Announcements - Re: Allegorithmic is joining the Adobe family

 on: January 24, 2019, 09:58:55 pm 

WHAT IS GOING TO HAPPEN TO PERPETUAL LICENCES?

If you read the Adobe press release they've made it clear that perpetual licenses will not exist and it will be under the umbrella of CC.

Just like they've done with past perpetual licenses (both their own, and acquired) they will terminate the licensing servers and force you to subscribe. If you take a look into the past as an example when it will occur, probably within the first year, definitely in the second.

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Substance - News & Announcements - Re: Allegorithmic is joining the Adobe family

 on: January 24, 2019, 02:54:02 am 

The question I want answered is: "Will Adobe honor the ability to purchase the perpetual licenses for people who are now currently under the indie subscription licensing scheme"?

We will make sure everybody gets a fair transition/exit if needed, yes. Anybody saying otherwise is pulling conjectures out of their rear end

Okay, good. I'm sure people don't want the rug pulled from under them and its one of the main concerns.

I truly hope Adobe's management takes a good hard look at the comments people are saying here. They can literally take the advice of customers and see what they can do to truly make the company and their products a million times better if they just listen seriously. The people here aren't asking for the impossible, we just want common sense, and not to be gouged for no reason at all.

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Substance - News & Announcements - Re: Allegorithmic is joining the Adobe family

 on: January 24, 2019, 02:45:45 am 

The question I want answered is: "Will Adobe honor the ability to purchase the perpetual licenses for people who are now currently under the indie subscription licensing scheme"?

Just look what happened when new investors/new board took control of Unity. They first said "no no, you'll always be able to buy perpetual licenses we guarantee it". One year later, "sorry subscription only".


I signed up for your indie subscription for the sole fact you stated I could buy perpetual licenses when the term was complete .... if Adobe takes that away from us .... it will be quite ugly (its essentially a breach of purchase contract and will probably cause a class-action against Allegorithmic/Adobe).

It's not a breech of contract because the entity you made that contract with, Allegorithmic, was dissolved and Adobe as their purchasee temporarily carried the licensing forward. This is not the first time licenses have been invalidated for software because of buy outs.

Depends on what country you live in when you "signed" the agreement. In Canada we have specific laws that prevent companies from using buyouts and mergers as excuses to not honor the original terms of the agreement. In order for the agreement to be legally altered, both parties must come an agreement to officially amend the original contract. If one side alters it without explicit agreement of both parties, then its a breach. And leaves the option for legal action and heavy fines.

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Substance - News & Announcements - Re: Allegorithmic is joining the Adobe family

 on: January 24, 2019, 02:33:06 am 

The question I want answered is: "Will Adobe honor the ability to purchase the perpetual licenses for people who are now currently under the indie subscription licensing scheme"?

Just look what happened when new investors/new board took control of Unity. They first said "no no, you'll always be able to buy perpetual licenses we guarantee it". One year later, "sorry subscription only".


I signed up for your indie subscription for the sole fact you stated I could buy perpetual licenses when the term was complete .... if Adobe takes that away from us .... it will be quite ugly (its essentially a breach of purchase contract and will probably cause a class-action against Allegorithmic/Adobe).