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Messages - cjwidd

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one little script to rule them all...plz

The value proposition for including Lighting and Models in a separate price tier but (still) purchasable on the basis of the SAME credit system used for downloading materials is fundamentally anti-consumer.

Adobe is literally pay-gating access to other 3d assets to increase buy-in for the more expensive plan, i.e. "If you have Substance credits and you want to download Lighting or Models with those credits, then you must also pay (at least) an additional US$20.00/mo to ACCESS those assets".

Adobe, this is inappropriate. There is no reason to NOT associate a price for new asset types via the Substance credit system (e.g. Lighting and Models), but it is NOT appropriate to pay-gate those assets on top of that price - this is basically a surcharge on top of the price for those assets.

I would invite the Substance / Adobe product team to reevaluate the pricing of these assets and develop a pricing model that is more consumer friendly and accessible to the loyal patrons of the Substance community.

SubstanceSubstance - Purchases & Licenses - Adobe License 2021
 on: June 24, 2021, 06:02:39 pm 
How to migrate existing Allegorithmic license subscription to new Adobe subscription. Discount for long time users?

We can add something that bakes the sbsar and its constituent outputs out to texture files, replacing the connections in the Slate material editor.

What are the prospects of getting a script that runs this operation for the Corona Legacy Material to tide us over until a complete solution is implemented?

I've been talking about this for at least a few years on this forum - Galen has outlined a solution on the Corona Renderer thread at the top of this channel.

We can add something that bakes the sbsar and its constituent outputs out to texture files, replacing the connections in the Slate material editor.

I really can't tell you how much the 3ds Max community could benefit from this - a lot.

Based on your earlier comments, it sounds like you are contemplating an option to basically bake down the SBSAR in 3ds Max to a texture set and shader graph for that texture set - I think you've said that something like this is already possible in Maya(?)

What I will need to see is whether this actually does anything for internal rendering, or whether it is what's causing a further curve to be applied on the bake output function.

Yes, I think we understand each other, and I think this quoted section identifies one of the outstanding questions pertaining to the plugin, in addition to, possibly, bitmap filtering or bit depth, e.g. 8-bit vs 32-bit.

If I understand you correctly, the mix maps that are used in the shader graph generated by the Substance to Corona converter are not expected to be used again in the future (v7, Corona Renderer Physical Material) because they are an approximation that is not required given the new Physical Material supports metalness / roughness(?)

I'm going to work with the demo art team and with the Corona team, to make sure we have a proper representation. Since we'll be redesigning how the workflow works, we can handle imports from our other software and have documentation on how that script works and what it's doing, and to try to match it to explanation of what to do with outputs from our main software. Since you're interested in ensuring that being the case, this would be a natural opportunity to ensure our documentation, workflow script and all are aligned.

That sounds like a strong plan to move forward, but those development goals will need to be met with tangible results and delivered in a timely manner for the user base to actually make use of updates and new features.

I hope the integrations team are able to capitalize on this opportunity to right the course of the Substance in 3ds Max plugin, which has been languishing for some time now. The Substance in 3ds Max plugin is the key to unlocking access to the massive substance library for rendering in 3ds Max and Corona Renderer, I hope future development respects the seriousness of that opportunity for the Substance user base.

In the interest of transparency, a good idea would be to maintain a public Trello board to document the pace and scope of development for the Substance in 3ds Max plugin, or some other public-facing task management system to keep users informed.

Most of the visual parity is going to be difference in gamma curve application, and perhaps sampling filter.

Yes, this sounds right - all of my comparison tests suggest there is something about gamma correction and perhaps filtering that is causing the difference.

I'll forward this to the demo art team and see if they can publish something like this, and update our shader docs online.
In either case, for the new shader, it's going to change.

All that is fine, but frankly this rhetoric is just kicking the can down the road; a proposal for how to move forward is appreciated, but there needs to be actual progress that benefits the user base in this regard. There are going to be Corona Renderer users that do not update to the Physical Material for years to come and Allegorithmic needs to offer an explanation for the Legacy Material in the interim. Answers to these questions about gamma correction, filtering, and so on, should have come YEARS ago when these questions were originally proposed.

I would ask that Allegorithmic put forward a response this week in regards to the questions that have been proposed - it doesn't have to be complete, polished documentation with graphics, etc., but at least an official response from the dev team providing a solution and an explanation (hot fix).

This is really the bare minimum of support that we should expect as subscribers - a low bar to clear. Please consult with your colleagues to make this happen this week.

The post above, originally posted in February (2021), is requesting a tutorial from Allegorithmic staff demonstrating step-by-step how to achieve visual parity between what is rendered by the Substance node and what is rendered using only bitmaps generated externally by the same Substance.

A version of this question has been repeated over and over again on this forum - whether it's questions about diffuse saturation, gamma correction, etc. - but a solution from Allegorithmic has never been offered in response.

For example, if I import the 'Mud Brick Wall' substance into the 3ds Max Slate Material Editor, generate 'Mud Brick Wall' shader graph using the Substance to Corona Converter, then render it, the rendered image WILL NOT RENDER IDENTICALLY if I were to build the shader graph from scratch using only maps of Mud Brick Wall exported from Substance Player, Substance Designer, or the Substance node itself.

1. There is no visibility into how the Substance node is rendering bitmaps in the Slate Material Editor.

2. There is no official documentation about why (or how) mix maps are used to blend diffuse, metallic, reflection, and IOR maps in the shader graph generated by the Substance to Corona converter.

We're talking about a two minute tutorial showing exactly how to REPLICATE a shader graph generated by the Substance to Corona converter - from scratch - using only bitmaps.

If the solution is known and exists, it should take less than 10 minutes to record a video showing how to do this and just post it to the forum as a learning resource for the community.

We could just allow a finalization step to 'commit' the graph node out to image files, if that would be helpful. That would be much simpler than attempting to match it with Player.

Yes, that would be acceptable, but even if that were possible users would still have to rely on the converter to generate the shader graph successfully - that's fine if the implementation works. It would be good to provide official documentation, video tutorial, written instructions, or more, explaining how to generate the shader graph manually without the converter.

Allegorithmic had a good idea by providing support for the Substance node in 3ds Max, but it is not an extensible solution. Allegorithmic must provide documentation explaining how to replicate the results of the Substance to Corona Converter on a manual basis to support other workflows, pipelines, etc. that CANNOT rely on the Substance node itself, for one reason or another.

That's a red flag if the Substance integrations team does not already know the answer to these questions. I had sincerely hoped that Substance was ahead of the curve in terms of implementing support for the new Physical Material in Corona Renderer; I heard through the grapevine that was the case.

Do you know if the legacy shader still works for now at least, or is the workflow script completely broken?

Legacy shader support is not broken, so far.

[...] and makes the new one beyond a certain version.

The new Physical Material is a total rewrite of the Legacy Material and includes significant updates to reflection / refraction glossiness, fIOR, and more - the Physical Material will break compatibility with the Substance to 3ds Max plugin if certain parameters are not respected.

Here is the most recent request from the linked thread above.

There needs to be a clear, documented method from Allegorithmic for exporting bitmaps from Substance Player, or by using the baked output feature of the Substance node in the Slate Material Editor, for achieving visual parity to what the Substance node presents itself.

Could you please provide a video demonstrating the following:

1. Import .SBSAR into Slate Material Editor
2. Make adjustments to the imported .SBSAR
3. Render the adjusted .SBSAR in Corona Renderer on a 3d primitive
4. Replicate that render using only bitmaps from the adjusted .SBSAR in the Slate Material Editor

If this is in fact something easily achievable and generalizable using a clear set of instructions, it should only take a few minutes and would be a huge contribution to resolving workflow myths regarding the Substance in 3ds Max plugin for Corona Renderer.

This support request has been made numerous times over the last  year (at least) and not once has Allegorithmic support staff offered a solution during that time, or before.

Jill, issues pertaining to the Substance in 3ds Max plugin have been posted in detail, repeatedly, over the last 5 years and are evident throughout this forum channel. Please see the appropriate discussion threads for reproduction steps, video logs, screenshots and other relevant media documenting bugs and support requests for the Substance in 3ds Max plugin.

Here is a good place to start.

How is the Substance in 3ds Max plugin integration going for Corona Renderer new Physical Material?

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