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Messages - graspee

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No customer knows and no adobe employee knows or none will answer.
All we know is that there was a loyalty discount plus sale at black friday 2018 then loyalty discount only in xmas sale then when the loyalty discount ended there was a regular sale (34% I think) despite them saying there wouldn't be then in lunar new year sale there was no substance discount.
What you can infer from this is that what adobe staff tell you about sales may not end up reflecting the truth and that there hasn't been a sale since the acquisition.

Is there a timeline for when perpetual licence will no longer be offered? If that is the case?

I would like to purchase perpetual licence before it's no longer available. To get the "final" version. But not sure how soon that could happen. Weeks? Months?

I think most of us think that SP and SD 2019 will be the final perpetual versions and it could be that the last chance to buy them at discount was actually last year in the steam black friday sale. I'm kicking myself for only getting SD2019 in the sale and not SP2019. I thought I would have another chance. There's a lunar new year sale on steam right now and substance products have no discount. It would be reasonable to assume they won't get a discount in the summer sale either or the halloween or black friday sales and then around xmas sale time they will probably quietly take everything off steam.

I'm really interested to see how they are going to spin this as an "exciting new licencing plan" to "benefit customers".

A well publicised Steam Sale with Painter and Decorator Substance 2019 on sale and with the loyalty discount back and stacking like we had in the Black Friday sale (I believe) would be a nice gesture and could only improve customer relations.

I think one of the main points at the moment and one that I don't think you have really answered, is that you are saying that you don't know whether there will still be X,Y and Z (e.g. perpetual licences in the future, whether substance will leave steam etc.) and say they are in discussions. I and I believe a lot of other members of the community find it unbelievable that you would sell your company to adobe without discussing and agreeing on these key issues first. I mean "Let's sell our company and then discuss how to handle various things _once we no longer actually have any control_" seems weird. 

And on another point you keep saying to trust you but trust is earned and recently in the steam winter sale someone asked if there would be a discount for the winter sale and Jeremie Noguer said "No, the black friday sale was the last one for this year". That was 22 Dec. The loyalty discount to buy 2019 versions for previous owners was still up at this point. But then when the loyalty discount had worn off suddenly there was a winter sale discount for substance products after all and on 28 Dec Mr. Noguer posted "There is actually a last minute sale right now :D".

I don't think there was any need to create a new thread. I think staff are massively exaggerating the level of insults, trolling etc. in the old thread unless those posts were deleted before I saw them. I think the "summary" of the points the community made in the last thread in the first post of this thread is way more adversarial than 99% of the community's posts in the other thread.

3D Coat is good software but it's yet another example of a product being dumped on steam and not supported on steam. Dev is not active on steam discussion area, sometimes the software is not discounted in the big sales, sometimes steam version is not updated when the program is updated on main web site etc. And the EULA needs to be updated on steam too apparently.

Been looking at 3DCoat and Z-Brush. They look interesting but come with a higher pricetag. Especially Z-Brush. Forget about Mari. 2000$?? get outta here.

ZBrush may cost a little more but once you buy its yours for life with upgrades for life. I bought my copy of ZBrush in 2007. Its the same license, more than 10 years of updates, not a penny more was asked of me. But you know what, because they didn't push me to buy or pay for upgrades or do anything underhanded I bought more licenses for my home computer and my work computer, and converted a few coworkers into liking and using ZBrush.

Pixologic is a company that has done everything right in terms of customer focus and customer priority. Other companies should take a good hard look at Pixologic and do what they did. Thats how you become a stable long term and loved company.

3D Coat has a serious problem that should send every artist screaming in the opposite direction. They've terminated and revoke licenses on the personal opinion of the owners that the artists work was obscene (like creating a nude sculpture,  a nude human form, excessive gore, or that felt it belittled or demeaned their religion) without refund.

See their own personal statement here:

I personally would never financially support a company that will actively take their personal beliefs into action with how they treat customers and their own personal works of art.

Guys and girls,
I asked Andrew, CEO of Pilgway about this, here is what he says:
"Even if I am Christian, I am for freedom and generally against any censoring and limitations. Many years ago we removed any limitations from using the software. You may tell it to peoples on forums. We will never judge or limit artists. And if something is written in our voice - it is just opinion, nothing more. I am completely for freedom of creativity. We don't judge artists and we expect they will not judge our views."

I think this is fair enough.

The steam EULA still says:
"4.1 The 3D-Coat software should not be used in the production of any pornographic production in correspondence to international laws." 

Which seems weird. I mean do they not care if you break copyright laws with it or other laws, only porn laws?

They aren't going to tell you that even if they know.

3D Coat has a serious problem that should send every artist screaming in the opposite direction. They've terminated and revoke licenses on the personal opinion of the owners that the artists work was obscene (like creating a nude sculpture,  a nude human form, excessive gore, or that felt it belittled or demeaned their religion) without refund.

I would like to see your evidence that they have revoked anyone's licence, period, because I don't think it happened.

I'm actually shocked at some of the earlier comments in this thread, particularly the ones advocating the deaths of Allegorithmic staff. Pretty sickening really. Those people should be ashamed.

I've read every page and didn't see any death threats. Were they removed?

Honestly Mari has come a long way. Maybe Foundry will offer a reasonably-priced Mari for Substance artists jumping ship.

There was a "reasonably-priced Mari" it was called Mari Indie.
They let it rot on steam, never talking to customers on steam, denying them customer service through the normal Mari channels and not even mentioning indie on their web page or twitter.
For years they continued to sell perpetual and subs to Mari Indie version 3 on steam despite "main" Mari getting tons of updates (It was on at least 4.2 or something). Mari non-commercial version (free) even got updates when mari indie wasn't, despite people actually paying for indie and despite the fact that mari nc was identical to mari indie as code (not licence). They claimed to be having some trouble with steam and that was why they couldn't update mari indie.

Finally in December 2018 they killed Mari Indie and suggested customers transition to a full Mari subscription and offered customers 80% off a one year subscription. This wasn't as great as it seemed though as they had a limited number of seats available and it was first come first served. Oh and also you can't open mari indie projects in full mari.

So, yeah, don't be holding up Mari as a shining example. They abandoned indie users years ago and now there's only the full mari which is out of the reach of most hobbyists.

My project's been languishing for like 6 months while I wait for this to be fixed. This is ridiculous. I regret making Substance an important part of my game.

I couldn't agree more. Whether it's allegorithmic's fault or unity's, the fact remains that we can't use the software we bought back in February. I wish so hard I could get a refund for it. I certainly won't be buying substance designer in future.

Does anyone know if this is fixed in unity 2017.1?  I have not had a chance to try the beta yet.

Unity 2017.1 officially launched today. I tried it. No, it's not fixed.

By the time we get to use SD6 in unity SD7 will be out. Well, the subscription thing.

I really don't see the point in paying month by month for updates for substance designer when SD6 came out in February and we are now in June and Unity3D still doesn't support SD6. With the new subscription model you are going to be forced to add more features to keep people subscribing and those features are going to be never usable in Unity3D because the turnaround is so many months. I don't know how much of the slowness is Allegorithmic and how much is Unity but it's not acceptable. And then there's the 4096 issue.

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