Author Topic: Matching Render in Modo as well as in Sub Painter. "How-to" - First Try = FAIL  (Read 11564 times)

Thank you Wes for your help!
Quote
I changed the Specular to sRGB. It needs to be sRGB as it contains color.

In fact it was the first setting changed, but with no success and that's why I am asking for your help. Even after reviewing update file that you send me back and ensure that noting is different from original one, still cant manage to get same render result compare to update file you provide  and my file. After deeper inspection i did not have any choice left... and delete all and start fresh setup of shader and textures.
Probably it was some kind of bug, because after fresh start and setup all as should be, everything is working fine now and i am able to reproduce desire effect and same result with metallic masking settings.

Thank you Wes for update guide for Modo 901!

And here some test i made with masking (first image) and only Specular effect without masking.

Best Regards,
Dian Mozokov

Last Edit: November 25, 2015, 09:59:10 pm

Thank you Wes for your help!
Quote
I changed the Specular to sRGB. It needs to be sRGB as it contains color.

In fact it was the first setting changed, but with no success and that's why I am asking for your help. Even after reviewing update file that you send me back and ensure that noting is different from original one, still cant manage to get same render result compare to update file you provide  and my file. After deeper inspection i did not have any choice left... and delete all and start fresh setup of shader and textures.
Probably it was some kind of bug, because after fresh start and setup all as should be, everything is working fine now and i am able to reproduce desire effect and same result with metallic masking settings.

Thank you Wes for update guide for Modo 901!

And here some test i made with masking (first image) and only Specular effect without masking.

Best Regards,
Dian Mozokov

Hi Dian,

Great news : ) Glad its working now. Yeah, I couldn't get the original scene to work either so I started from scratch. There is a difference between the masking and non-masking version. You could go either way. I think using the masking version provides a better result.

Cheers,
Wes
Head of Substance Demo Art Team
the3dninja@adobe.com
Twitter: The3DNinja

Hi Wes

I have a question about your setup. You have the diffuse and specular setup to SRGB. Is this for setups which is being rendered in SRGB?

IF you are using modo in linear mode, do you swap those images to linear?

Thanks

Mark

Hi Wes

I have a question about your setup. You have the diffuse and specular setup to SRGB. Is this for setups which is being rendered in SRGB?

IF you are using modo in linear mode, do you swap those images to linear?

Thanks

Mark

HI Mark,

I have diffuse and specularColor set to sRGB because they represent color that we see. These values represent color data that was chosen on a computer monitor so they need to be linearized (gamma removed) for computation. The renderer will add a 2.2. gamma render view.

When you mention that you are using modo in linear mode, are you saving out linear exr files for compositing? Meaning that you are removing the final 2.2. gamma (view LUT) to the render view? In either case, I think you will need to have diffuse and specularColor set to sRGB so the values are computed correctly at render time.

Cheers,
Wes
Head of Substance Demo Art Team
the3dninja@adobe.com
Twitter: The3DNinja

Hi Wes,

This is a point I am unsure of which is why I am looking for guidance. When I first heard of and started using PBR (painter was my first foray into it), I read that to use PBR correctly it is best to be in a linear setup. For instance in unity they recommend that linear is used (it is more beneficial for colour correction and image effects with HDR).

I just assumed that this was the same case for modo, creating a linear setup (linear LUT in the renderer). It wasn't really for composting as I try and get my lighting as close to my finished look as possible. (however sometimes I will colour correct afterwards but generally don't use EXR unless I have to). I have noticed with modo (and in general) that sRGB setup (gamma 2.2) can be more washed out looking with less colour correction options. However the opposite is with linear, that you have stronger colours, require bigger and stronger light sources but have the benefit of more flexible colour correction. I have also noticed that in modo sRGB PBR, the fresnel effect is a lot stronger.

I suppose the question is, what is the recommended PBR setup to use in modo? If the answer is really what ever you prefer working in (as they both have a slightly different workflow). Then is my setup  with linear images  accurate? From tests I have done it seems as though it is, but it can be difficult to match materials between painter and modo if you don't use HBL.

Or is it more accurate to use an sRGB setup?

Sorry for hijacking this thread :)

Hi Wes,

This is a point I am unsure of which is why I am looking for guidance. When I first heard of and started using PBR (painter was my first foray into it), I read that to use PBR correctly it is best to be in a linear setup. For instance in unity they recommend that linear is used (it is more beneficial for colour correction and image effects with HDR).

I just assumed that this was the same case for modo, creating a linear setup (linear LUT in the renderer). It wasn't really for composting as I try and get my lighting as close to my finished look as possible. (however sometimes I will colour correct afterwards but generally don't use EXR unless I have to). I have noticed with modo (and in general) that sRGB setup (gamma 2.2) can be more washed out looking with less colour correction options. However the opposite is with linear, that you have stronger colours, require bigger and stronger light sources but have the benefit of more flexible colour correction. I have also noticed that in modo sRGB PBR, the fresnel effect is a lot stronger.

I suppose the question is, what is the recommended PBR setup to use in modo? If the answer is really what ever you prefer working in (as they both have a slightly different workflow). Then is my setup  with linear images  accurate? From tests I have done it seems as though it is, but it can be difficult to match materials between painter and modo if you don't use HBL.

Or is it more accurate to use an sRGB setup?

Sorry for hijacking this thread :)

HI Mark,

No problem : )

With PBR, the computations are done in Linear space. However, this is something that is controlled via render settings and shader. You are not authoring or working in Linear space. The shader will compute maps in linear space. The renderer in modo is also computing in linear space. Then, the final render is shown in gamma or video space (2.2). This is what we see on our monitors.

In order to do this correctly, some maps need to be interpreted.

The easiest way to think of it is if the map is responsible for color we see, then it needs to be gamma corrected. This means the map is flagged as sRGB and this lets the shader or renderer know to remove the encoded 2.2 gamma for linear computation. The maps that need to be interpreted as sRGB are.

diffuse,
base color,
specular color.

The other maps such as roughness, AO and normal represent data. Even though these maps were authored in gamma space, they should not be linearized. They represent values not color.

With Unity, you need to set the gamma space to linear. Then, when you import textures, Unity will handle the conversions. You don't need to change any maps.

Modo's color spaces will depend on how you have the defaults set. You can set it manually as well on the Image Tab.

In the attached image, I show the setup for rendering in linear space in modo. Internally, the renderer is always in linear, but you just have to interpret the input maps and LUT for the final render view.

Check out our PBR guide as it contains info on linear rendering as well.
https://allegorithmic.com/pbr-guide


Cheers,
Wes

Head of Substance Demo Art Team
the3dninja@adobe.com
Twitter: The3DNinja