Announcing Substance SHARE

[tokri]

While we render models based on substances, we are not including substances in our models or modifying them somehow. We are using a converter to produce materials based on the textures a substance generates. Substances in their original form or modified form, that are being included inside a game, are part of that game. A texture that is being generated from a substance is not the substance by itself.

A substance is a generator not the final product we use in our models. If we modify the generator and want to share it, we have to use this CC-BY-SA licencing. That's not what we're doing.

As you see it that way, can you point out the text on BY-SA license that states that the license works like that? Please keep in mind that licenses are not about common sense, it's what is written there.

The part that's vague is what is considered to be adapted material / derived work. There's been lots of conversation about this elsewhere:
http://stackoverflow.com/questions/8893135/using-cc-by-sa-music-in-a-closed-source-game

if you look at the answer there, someone from CC staff even had told that it's not easy to define what's adapted work and what's not as it goes towards copyright laws (which I'd guess can differ greatly for different countries as well).

There's also been this discussion on the topic in general:
http://opengameart.org/forumtopic/practicality-of-cc-by-sa

Btw, I fail to see any mention to the license on substance share site itself. I only briefly saw the license when I first logged in, but can't find it anywhere now. It would be more clear if the license was available on the site somewhere as well.

I've initiated a new thread in the Substance Share section of this forum.
You can find it here: License clarification...

Usually forum rules don't allow crossposting, so I think it's up to mods to transfer this conversation to the new topic if they see that's needed. I think having conversation on multiple places simultaneously just scatters the information

[kim.frederik]

Usually forum rules don't allow crossposting, so I think it's up to mods to transfer this conversation to the new topic if they see that's needed. I think having conversation on multiple places simultaneously just scatters the information

I fully understand. This is how forums work in general.
However, since this thread is Announcing Substance Share, I created the new thread to make it more clear that my questions are related to License clarification.

If I were a mod here, I would split this thread and move the last couple of posts to the thread I initiated.

[JQL]

The part that's vague is what is considered to be adapted material / derived work.

Yes I agree with you, but imo that vagueness must go to a point where it's reasonable.

Adapted Material means material subject to Copyright and Similar Rights that is derived from or based upon the Licensed Material and in which the Licensed Material is translated, altered, arranged, transformed, or otherwise modified in a manner requiring permission under the Copyright and Similar Rights held by the Licensor.

Keywords are:

- derived from or based upon;
AND
- translated, altered, arranged, transformed, or otherwise modified.

Those two sets of conditions must be all true for this material to be considered "Adapted Material".

So if your substance is inserted in another artwork like a game or a render and if you do not: translate, alter, arrange, transform, or otherwise modify it, you can disregard it as "Adapted Material".

As it would only be "Adapted Material" if all conditions are met you should be able to use one of this substances without a problem in your game.

Now if you want to modify the substance and create a new substance you will fulfil all conditions. Then you cannot sell your substance and you must share it as CC-BY-SA.

Of course, this new substance, can be used in any game, in the same way as above.

Now, of course this is only an opinion and all is still shady. So I stand that it's better to use the "better safe than sorry" moto!

PS: Learning from other people's work is always very useful, but somehow I believe it was not the only intended use for Substance Share.

[Scoot951]

I think even just including it in the larger work counts as 'arranging' it, and it could be very difficult to include it in a way that does not somehow transform or modify it as well. Even something as simple as a bit of color/lighting could count.

[JQL]

I think even just including it in the larger work counts as 'arranging' it, and it could be very difficult to include it in a way that does not somehow transform or modify it as well. Even something as simple as a bit of color/lighting could count.

If that is true indeed, wich I don't believe, it's no use for commercial work.

[kim.frederik]

If that is true indeed, wich I don't believe, it's no use for commercial work.

Unfortunately I have to agree with JQL on this.

This makes it even more evident that more clear license terms is needed!

[Sebastien Deguy]

Ok guys,

After numerous internal discussions, and with the help of our lawyer, we agree that CC-BY-SA is NOT the proper license to be used here.

My intent was to make sure that what could be found on Share could be used for any purpose, personal or  commercial work both included. But I also wanted to make sure to protect contributors, in such a way that would impeach anyone to simply download your creation and basically resell it somewhere else...

It looked to me that CC-BY-SA was the answer, but in fact it does pose a threat to the entire production integrating content licensed under these terms. That was obviously not my intent, and I misread the text.

The proper license does not seem to exist and we might in the future work on a license reflecting what I originally described and truly want, but in the meantime we picked a CC-BY license: http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/4.0/.

I sincerely apologize for the mess... and hope this will be found practical to our community.

Sébastien

[kim.frederik]

Thank you SO MUCH for the clarification, Sebastien!

That is for sure very clear license terms.
In fact this is actually taking it more wide than what I would think, but I believe this is only great.

Thanks once again and congrats with Substance Share! 

[Nicolas LIATTI]

The new license is available here: https://www.allegorithmic.com/legal/substance-share

And it will be available in the coming hours on Share, you will need to check it before logging on the website.

Cheers,
Nicolas

[Nicolas LIATTI]

By the way, we are so proud of you guyz: we have more than 10 000 downloads in less than 24 hours!
We received as well lots of assets, they should be all validated in the coming hours.

Thank you all for your awesome response

[JQL]

It's amazing how fast you solved this issue! Congratulations for that and, of course, for Substance Share!

[tokri]

Wow, that happened fast, thank you!

Now I feel almost obligated to submit something myself Thanks again!

[Sebastien Deguy]

Wow, that happened fast, thank you!

Now I feel almost obligated to submit something myself Thanks again!

Great, can't wait to see what you upload! Already a lot of assets submitted, which makes me glad

[Scoot951]

Glad to see this was updated so quickly! Usually I expect legalese changes to take a couple years to get gotten around to.

[Teo]

Super nice you guys changed the license with something much simpler. At least things are much more clear and simple now. Thanks!