Author Topic: [RESOLVED] Open Letter to Substance Integration Team: 3ds Max plugin (2.3.1)  (Read 2830 times)

Hi, the Substance in 3ds Max plugin (2.3.1) remains almost completely unusable for customers that have paid for access to Substance tools and associated assets for use in external DCC applications and renderers.

These issues have persisted for over six months and are well documented on the forums. Something significant must be done to address these issues and to offer compensation to customers that have repeatedly paid for a service that does not function as advertised.

This situation requires urgent attention can cannot be ignored. I look forward to your immediate response in hopes that the situation does not escalate beyond its already harmful state to the user base.
Last Edit: April 10, 2020, 09:44:24 pm

Hi cjwidd,

All of the Substance plugins for the software that we develop them do not cost money, nor are they associated with any of the subscription or licensing models.

We have done more research into how to deal with the more complicated issues, including discussing with Autodesk how they handle them. There are multiple solutions to some of them, however none of them are without downsides and they'll need to be evaluated.

Cheers,
Galen
Software Engineer, Integrations
Maya, 3ds Max and Core Libraries

Hi, the Substance in 3ds Max plugin (2.3.1) remains almost completely unusable for customers that have paid for access to Substance tools and associated assets for use in external DCC applications and renderers.

These issues have persisted for over six months and are well documented on the forums. Something significant must be done to address these issues and to offer compensation to customers that have repeatedly paid for a service that does not function as advertised.

This situation requires urgent attention can cannot be ignored. I look forward to your immediate response in hopes that the situation does not escalate beyond its already harmful state to the user base.

Hi,

I am very sorry for these issues you are experiencing with the plugin. I will speak to our Integrations Product managers to see what we need to do to solve this issue.

As Galen mentioned, it’s a complex problem that involves us working 3ds max dev team as well. I don’t mean to pass blame or make light of the situation. However, I want to give you the most information I can. For the plugin to work, we are needing to do a lot of dynamic processes and we are having to create work arounds to some of the core processes of how max is working. We are working on this but it takes a lot of time as it unfortunately involves several teams.

I will ask our management team to monitor this thread as well. Please feel free to contact me on this directly.

Cheers,
Wes
Head of Substance Demo Art Team
the3dninja@adobe.com
Twitter: The3DNinja

Believe me when I say that despite my frustration my concerns come from a place of love and respect for everything Allegorithmic has done for the 3d community.

I understand there is complexity in managing interorganizational relationships and challenges that come along with integrating external partners. I also appreciate the magnitude of what it means to try and maintain a software ecosystem that is expected to integrate with nearly every major DCC application in the 3d industry. That being said, the issues facing the Substance to 3ds Max plugin are so severe and have persisted for so long, that one must consider whether it is suitable to allow access to such a software, let alone promote it.

While the software integration tools from Adobe / Allegorithmic might be free, the Substance Source license is not. Customers that purchase licenses to the Substance Source materials library under the assumption that it integrates seamlessly with DCC applications indicated by Adobe / Allegorithmic's official website and promotional / educational videos are at a loss.

I appreciate your sincere apology and it speaks to the commitment Allegorithmic has made to the community of artists and developers that use Substance tools.

If there are other scripts / tools that can be made available to help address this issue, I would be interested to learn more.
Last Edit: February 28, 2020, 05:24:23 pm

I know of nothing that would alleviate the issue for your workflow.

It is a structural issue with 3ds Max, which their rendering team has told us how they work with the issue. It is not a simple issue to solve.

To be transparent, the options available to us include the most stable, which requires a significant amount of work, and another which requires less work, but would necessitate dropping 3ds Max 2018 and would require you to reload and resave every preexisting scene.
Last Edit: March 03, 2020, 11:04:27 pm
Software Engineer, Integrations
Maya, 3ds Max and Core Libraries

Right, I understand, and I appreciate you being forthright with this issue.

Unfortunately, it doesn't seem that the Corona team is in a position to resolve the issue either, but perhaps I will contact support for an update.
Last Edit: March 03, 2020, 11:05:18 pm

Ah, I thought you meant the paramblock issue.

The corona issue involves duplication of the node and it is our goal to try to resolve that soon for a patch update, after the next Maya plugin release, which is soon.
Software Engineer, Integrations
Maya, 3ds Max and Core Libraries

What is happening is that Corona duplicates the node for its scene translator, and the changes to the inputs do not reflect to the hidden/duplicated node.
Software Engineer, Integrations
Maya, 3ds Max and Core Libraries

I think we may be talking past each other with respect to different bugs in the software.

Regarding Corona Renderer, one of the primary issues consists of the Substance Diffuse channel failing to update in the IPR. Is that what you are referring to, i.e. node duplication?

Yes, that's what I'm talking about. What happens is Corona makes a copy, so what you edit the sliders with and what IPR renders with are not the same thing.

This sort of worked in the original 2.0.0 plugin as sort of a happy accident, but stopped working when we did things more correctly in 2.1.1.

Now it must be properly fixed.
Software Engineer, Integrations
Maya, 3ds Max and Core Libraries

That is actually fascinating - thank you for sharing, because it is consistent with my observations while working with the plugin - I was curious why this behavior wasn't always present in v2.0.0 but then appeared consistently in v2.1.1

@Galen, maybe you've noticed this, but there is some sort of gamma correction issue with the Substance to 3ds Max plugin for Corona.


I'll take a look and see what the gamma correction should be set to. There may be differences based on the bit depth of the color outputs set in Designer as well.
Software Engineer, Integrations
Maya, 3ds Max and Core Libraries

Just to clarify, please see the attached images which illustrate the issue - which I think has been posted about before on the forums, albeit in a different incarnation / renderer.

default Substance to Corona


modified


I assume the material should appear more as it does in the 'modified version'. You will notice displacement is active by default on the Substance to Corona option, which is incorrect. Also, the reflectance color is not gamma corrected (?)

@Galen what is the significance of the Substance2 map with respect to the issues and conversations recorded on this channel? see 3ds max 2021