Allegorithmic is joining the Adobe family (Part2)

Author Topic: Allegorithmic is joining the Adobe family (Part2)  (Read 70219 times)

Just got my perpetual licence. Not taking any chances.

I truly hope you won't end up like this

https://arstechnica.com/gaming/2019/02/activision-blizzard-lays-off-775-people-after-record-results-in-2018/

Thanks ;-)
(For info, Mixamo team has been multiplied by 3 since they joined Adobe, and we are hiring :) : https://allegorithmic.breezy.hr/ )

I am glad to hear that and I hope this will lead to new and exciting stuff but remember that after Blizzard was merged with Activision all was well for a few years. Now they are firing people even after their most profitable year. Sure they were making a lot of money but it wasn't as much as their greedy overlords wanted.

I'd make a guess i'm very much in the minority here, and I completely understand others concerns. However this announcement is potentially ideal for me as I was planning on starting to use Substance and I already have a full Adobe CC account for my other work, this just being added to that would be perfect.

Is there any timeframe when stuff will actually start being integrated? Are we talking weeks, months or longer? I don't really want to end up double dipping, but I also don't want to sit around waiting for longer than anticipated.

I had a dream, that after a long career I would be able to retire and pursue my true interests, one of which was Substance.

I like Substance Designer so much, the artwork on my YouTube channel of the same name I use here was the first graph I made that worked and has been for years. If you look at my channel, ALL of the featured channels are CGI related and none relate to cooking although that is what I teach. Some are companies, some are individuals; even Vincent is there. Adobe and Autodesk are conspicuously absent.

I cancelled my subscription here yesterday and took the $49 buyout option. Fifteen years ago, I had been working at the head office of my corporation. There was an annual conference where there was great talk of a merger. I thought about it for 3 days, then applied for a lateral move with a significant pay cut. I gave up all my corporate powers and moved down from the mountaintop to the least and most secure position in retail. Everyone though I was under too much stress and had lost my mind.

A few months later, there was a great offer from the mothership:  Leave the Western Division and come teach your brothers in the main Eastern division.  The smart people looked at each other, took the severance package and quit.  The naive sold their homes and made the move cross-country.

A few months after that, the Western head office where I had worked was liquidated. The people that had not quit or moved were given severance pay and fired with no reason given, after nearly 30 years of service. Many came to see me in tears, seeking closure...what had I known?  I had no inside information, only a clear understanding of how large corporations work.  They are psychopaths and there is an excellent documentary called ‘The Corporation’ that deals with this topic.

To finish the story, several months later, all those who had uprooted their lives, homes, and families to work with Eastern counterparts were let go.  A few, the excellent, survived but the majority had simply had their knowledge wrung from them and were then liquidated in turn.

For my part, I toughed it out to the finish line until December of last year. I will settle for the perpetual licenses as I will no longer bend knee to any corporate hegemon, especially now that I am a freedman. 

You are naive in the extreme to believe that you are in a position to dictate terms to Adobe.

It is like believing healthcare exists to make people better. Healthcare exists because the dead can’t shop.

I'd make a guess i'm very much in the minority here, and I completely understand others concerns. However this announcement is potentially ideal for me as I was planning on starting to use Substance and I already have a full Adobe CC account for my other work, this just being added to that would be perfect.

Is there any timeframe when stuff will actually start being integrated? Are we talking weeks, months or longer? I don't really want to end up double dipping, but I also don't want to sit around waiting for longer than anticipated.

We are more talking about months imho

Hello,

I make materials with substance designer and painter, and sell these materials on gumroad.

in your legal text, I read this:


Quote
3.2 You shall not ..... (iii) Use the Software or Substance Source: (A) either to compete with the Software, Substance Source or any other Substance suite products offered by Allegorithmic


Quote
6.3 As provided by Paragraphs 3.2 and 5.2, you cannot redistribute your Licensee Content, especially in a Commercial Use, if it competes with either our Substance suite products, our software tools or our solutions. This competition can be related to similar assets (Substance files, textures, materials) or similar files and software tools. Your Licensee Content has to be different enough in terms of design and in terms of feature to avoid any confusion with our Copyright Assets and Allegorithmic products.

Substance source sells materials. I sell materials on gumroad. this means I am in direct competition.

I see the legal text has been updated on 24 january. is this added by adobe?
does this mean we cannot use substance products for creating materials we sell online? I am very concerned.

Please dont give excuse that this is in the legal text but will not be enforced. If this ist in legal text, it is added by laywers for a reason.

Hello,

I make materials with substance designer and painter, and sell these materials on gumroad.

in your legal text, I read this:


Quote
3.2 You shall not ..... (iii) Use the Software or Substance Source: (A) either to compete with the Software, Substance Source or any other Substance suite products offered by Allegorithmic


Quote
6.3 As provided by Paragraphs 3.2 and 5.2, you cannot redistribute your Licensee Content, especially in a Commercial Use, if it competes with either our Substance suite products, our software tools or our solutions. This competition can be related to similar assets (Substance files, textures, materials) or similar files and software tools. Your Licensee Content has to be different enough in terms of design and in terms of feature to avoid any confusion with our Copyright Assets and Allegorithmic products.

Substance source sells materials. I sell materials on gumroad. this means I am in direct competition.

I see the legal text has been updated on 24 january. is this added by adobe?
does this mean we cannot use substance products for creating materials we sell online? I am very concerned.

Please dont give excuse that this is in the legal text but will not be enforced. If this ist in legal text, it is added by laywers for a reason.

Hey, we are talking about software (not content): for example you cannot bit a bitmap2material clone based on our tech and sell it (cause it competes with bitmap2material).

You can of course create a rock material and resell it without any issue.

Thank you for your reply.

Hey, we are talking about software (not content)

I would agree if legal text would only talk about compete with program,but it specifically forbids competing with Substance source. Substance source is a material library, if I sell a material on gumroad I am clearly competing with Substance source because I sell same thing.

I paste text again:


Quote
GENERAL RESTRICTIONS APPLICABLE TO THE SOFTWARE
......
3.2 You shall not ... (iii) Use the Software or Substance Source: (A) either to compete wit-h the Software, Substance Source or any other Substance suite products offered by Allegorithmic


And for second part:

Quote
"Licensee Content" means textures, images, Substances or other content otherwise called derivative work that You developed from Your Use of the Software or the Copyright Assets.
......
......

6.3 As provided by Paragraphs 3.2 and 5.2, you cannot redistribute your Licensee Content, especially in a Commercial Use, if it competes with either our Substance suite products, our software tools or our solutions. This competition can be related to similar assets (Substance files, textures, materials) or similar files and software tools. Your Licensee Content has to be different enough in terms of design and in terms of feature to avoid any confusion with our Copyright Assets and Allegorithmic products.


Definition says any texture or image I create with Designer is 'Licensee Content'

6.3 says that I am not allowed to sell Licensee content if it competes with your Substance suite products (Source). Again, it does not limit this restriction to 'do not compete with program', it forbids competition with assets, Substance files, textures and materials!

Then also in 5.2:
Quote
5.2 You shall not (i) provide, disclose, display or otherwise make available the Copyright Asset or any copy, portion, extract or derivative thereof, or permit use of any of the foregoing by or for the benefit of multiple users or any third party...

My material uses many default grungemaps in graph, so my material contain 'derivative of Copyright Asset'. On gumroad I sell my material to multiple users. So this part also says I am not allowed to sell materials.

This part strange anyway. Every game that use Substance 'displays' derivative of Copyright asset!

Last:

Quote
5.2 You shall not... (iii) use the Software to develop a competing service, solution or software.

Is selling material on gumroad a competing service? I bet adobe lawyers can say yes.



So legal text forbids sale of materials created with Substance in many many ways... I like making materials and I spend many hours on them. I don't want scary legal text that forbids selling my work.   

With all respect, it is nice you say it is allowed, but the legal text is more important. I don't expect adobe lawyers to be nice, so I need clear legal answer. If what you say is allowed, the legal text should be updated.

You are right, this point is not clear (it has been updated in November, and has nothing to do with Adobe)
So we are working on this to make it clearer (especially for Substance Source)

Basically, 'you cannot create a competitor of our software based on our tech' will remain (it's here since 2011)
For Substance Source, we will ajust this and it would look something like 'you cannot  resell/redistribute a material from Substance Source without sufficient changes". We'll define 'sufficient changes', but what we want to avoid  is someone taking one content from Substance source, changing 3 parameters, and resseling it.

One again, thanks for reporting this: this is completely legit and will be adressed.

Heard about this from another game dev forum even before I got the email - wow - can't say I am happy about the move.  :o

I already have a sub for Photoshop - so far it is available at a reasonable price - but if you get any of the other CC tools the price goes through the roof.

I have a perpetual license for Substance Painter (last update 2018.1.3) and bought the Sub to Substance Indie August last year, but since the price just doubled (now $30 AU a month) and Adobe is now in the picture, I may as well just use the perpetual license. Really wishing I had just renewed my maintenance for it now, but all is Ok, not the first time I have been bitten. lol 8)

As an indie dev I don't make a lot of cash from my work - more of a hobbie, and since I own Quixel Suite and already have an Adobe Sub so I can use that I decided to cancel my Substance Sub - I was happy to pay the amount required to you guys, but not keen on giving more cash to Adobe - sorry guys.

I prefer the Substance workflo, but we indies are used to being the collateral damage of the big corps, it is a given that Adobe will make it less affordable so might as well bail out now.

I have to say I really am just a little disappointed.

Hope your new venture works for you.....  8)  8)
Last Edit: February 15, 2019, 02:43:57 pm

@Marc_1989 Just chiming in to say that we are currently discussing internally about that part of our EULA to see how we can clarify it. Our goal has never been to prevent anybody from creating and selling custom materials on any other platforms.  :)
Don't forget your log file. It can be exported from the Help menu of the software.
-----------
Froyok aka Fabrice Piquet, Technical Artist and Product Designer at Allegorithmic.

You are right, this point is not clear (it has been updated in November, and has nothing to do with Adobe)
So we are working on this to make it clearer (especially for Substance Source)

Basically, 'you cannot create a competitor of our software based on our tech' will remain (it's here since 2011)
For Substance Source, we will ajust this and it would look something like 'you cannot  resell/redistribute a material from Substance Source without sufficient changes". We'll define 'sufficient changes', but what we want to avoid  is someone taking one content from Substance source, changing 3 parameters, and resseling it.

One again, thanks for reporting this: this is completely legit and will be adressed.

@Marc_1989 Just chiming in to say that we are currently discussing internally about that part of our EULA to see how we can clarify it. Our goal has never been to prevent anybody from creating and selling custom materials on any other platforms.  :)

This is great news, thanks guys :)

Should I wait winter sale or black friday to buy substance tools on Steam? I afraid all substance tools will no longer exist for purchase on Steam.

Should I wait winter sale or black friday to buy substance tools on Steam? I afraid all substance tools will no longer exist for purchase on Steam.
I would definitely like to know the exact same thing. I was planning to purchase the Steam version of Substance Bundle and get an offline license through linking my Steam account. Should I wait until the Summer Sale, or will it be too late?

No customer knows and no adobe employee knows or none will answer.
All we know is that there was a loyalty discount plus sale at black friday 2018 then loyalty discount only in xmas sale then when the loyalty discount ended there was a regular sale (34% I think) despite them saying there wouldn't be then in lunar new year sale there was no substance discount.
What you can infer from this is that what adobe staff tell you about sales may not end up reflecting the truth and that there hasn't been a sale since the acquisition.

We have never commented on potential sales beforehand in the past and we likely won't in the future either.