Allegorithmic is joining the Adobe family (Part2)

[Trapista]

I'm content with the firm answer that our Indie subscriptions can and will be available to convert to perpetual licenses for $49 after completing the 12 month requirement.

Hold on.. I was told something else when I contacted the support via email!

In a series of email exchange, I wrote: "Do you mean that the option to convert to perpetual (by paying $49 at the end) may not be available?"
And the answer was: "Indeed, the option might not be available in 12 months if we change our licensing offer. I cannot give any guarantees on this, as this hasn't been decided. However, you can be sure that if we decide to discontinue this offer within the next 12 months, you will be given the option to purchase a perpetual license beforehand"

This is how I understand this: they might remove the option to convert for $49 anytime, maybe just before you would reach the end of the 12-months. However, you will be able to buy a perpetual at an unknown price, but probably not for $49.

I would prefer if the team's answers were more coherent. But they are not, so I don't trust that the $49 option will be there. It is a lottery "for now"

[Jeremie Noguer]

This is how I understand this: they might remove the option to convert for $49 anytime, maybe just before you would reach the end of the 12-months. However, you will be able to buy a perpetual at an unknown price, but probably not for $49.

No that means that even if the offer is rescinded at some point during your 12 months, you would be given the opportunity to get your perpetual licenses for the same price, but before your 12 months are over.

[musashidan]

I'm posting my concerns below again(copy/paste from page 6) as they weren't addressed. I'm wondering if you can give any info that is a bit more specific regarding your roadmap? Just saying that 'real-time 3D is the future and we're heading that direction' is way too vague, and nothing new as real-time 3D had always been your focus of expertise anyway.

I would find it very hard to believe that Allego staked their entire future - company, reputation, dreams, careers, everything - on something that wasn't fleshed out to the point where it was a solid vision of what you wanted to achieve with this deal. I'm not asking anyone to break NDAs, I just wanted some roadmap clarifications. Thanks.

Copy/paste follows:

Having looked at what Dimensions is I have no idea why on earth any artist in the games industry would ever have a need for it? We have UE4/Unity/EEVEE/Toolbag 3, and even Painter to look dev our real-time assets and test them in-engine. Any serious pipeline is going to involve any of the above plus the 3D DCC 'hub' program(Max/Maya/Blender/Modo) Where does it fit in, exactly.

What does Dimensions have to do with the real-time industry? Isn't it a biased raytracer? I realise that in a few years real-time raytracing may very well be the next 'big step forward' as it's already being partially implemented in some cases, but this will be in a true environment like UE4.

This is what I meant when I said that Substance tools would be wasted in an environment like Dimensions. If I do want to render my game assets offline why would I ever want to do it in Dimensions when I can use Arnold or Corona instead? This is what worries me the most, Substance team members and tools being used to 'jump on the 3D bandwagon' - as you put it - so Adobe can put smiles back on the faces of corporate logo designers. Not cool. I know it's early days, but I'm very doubtful that cutting-edge games industry workflows/pipelines(that Allego have excelled at) will be featured anywhere prominently in an Adobe office space......

[nsanjose]

This is how I understand this: they might remove the option to convert for $49 anytime, maybe just before you would reach the end of the 12-months. However, you will be able to buy a perpetual at an unknown price, but probably not for $49.

No that means that even if the offer is rescinded at some point during your 12 months, you would be given the opportunity to get your perpetual licenses for the same price, but before your 12 months are over.

Would we be able to purchase maintenance at that time?

[Jeremie Noguer]

@musashidan We have roadmaps for all our current and future tools of course, but we haven't shared them in the past and we likely won't start now. If you trusted our roadmap to be going in the right direction before, it hasn't changed.

[ShaderDave]

Question- Since Allegorithmic is no longer the competition to adobe we once hoped it would remain and encourage adobe to actually innovate for once this decade, would you be ok if Adobe applies legal pressure in any way possible to stifle competition from coming up with similar functioning software to that of Substance?

[Vincent Gault]

This is how I understand this: they might remove the option to convert for $49 anytime, maybe just before you would reach the end of the 12-months. However, you will be able to buy a perpetual at an unknown price, but probably not for $49.

No that means that even if the offer is rescinded at some point during your 12 months, you would be given the opportunity to get your perpetual licenses for the same price, but before your 12 months are over.

Would we be able to purchase maintenance at that time?

Once again hypothetical scenario, but if the system stops and we give you the option to leave it to go with a perpetual license, I don't think it will come with the option to buy maintenance. That said, and once again, nothing has been announced saying that we skipping anything at the moment.

[Vincent Gault]

Question- Since Allegorithmic is no longer the competition to Adobe we once hoped it would remain and encourage adobe to actually innovate for once this decade, would you be ok if Adobe applies legal pressure in any way possible to stifle competition from coming up with similar functioning software to that of Substance?

I'm not sure what precise case you are talking about, but if it's a legit case (like someone using our tech in a way that is not allowed), yes it would be OK, as it would be for our competitors to do so, and as it would have been ok to do it as Allegorithmic.

I give you an example: in the EULA of our products, it's specified that you cannot build a competitor of our products based on our own technology (meaning the Substance engine for example). It happened few times that we had to gently remind some people that what they were doing was not authorized (without suing anyone). Generally it was understood and problem solved.

If you are talking about legal harassment, based on nothing, then no I wouldn't find it legit. Does it answer your question?

[LAdair]

I'm content with the firm answer that our Indie subscriptions can and will be available to convert to perpetual licenses for $49 after completing the 12 month requirement.

Hold on.. I was told something else when I contacted the support via email!

In a series of email exchange, I wrote: "Do you mean that the option to convert to perpetual (by paying $49 at the end) may not be available?"
And the answer was: "Indeed, the option might not be available in 12 months if we change our licensing offer. I cannot give any guarantees on this, as this hasn't been decided. However, you can be sure that if we decide to discontinue this offer within the next 12 months, you will be given the option to purchase a perpetual license beforehand"

This is how I understand this: they might remove the option to convert for $49 anytime, maybe just before you would reach the end of the 12-months. However, you will be able to buy a perpetual at an unknown price, but probably not for $49.

I would prefer if the team's answers were more coherent. But they are not, so I don't trust that the $49 option will be there. It is a lottery "for now"

I asked in part 1. Here's a screenshot of my post replying to Jeremie's answer:

[magicnono]

Hi,
I'm coming here late but i feel the need to express my sentiments.

We have the Gilets Jaunes here and all toons of other Movements for the Climat highly supported by the population in France. All of them have the same roots of the problem well known, capitalism.

We are actually facing in the coming year's tremendous problems and we need resilience in our own country. You can't tell me that a French company built on his own will behave better depending on a US company!
Guys I'm living in a city equal to Clermont and nearly every medium sised corporates are US company now, doing so you are exposing every employees to what's happening everywhere. Even our agricultural fields are beeing actively buyed by chinees corporates.

We were proud of a french company ! well not anymore, it's sad.

[Vincent Gault]

Hi,
I'm coming here late but i feel the need to express my sentiments.

We have the Gilets Jaunes here and all toons of other Movements for the Climat highly supported by the population in France. All of them have the same roots of the problem well known, capitalism.

We are actually facing in the coming year's tremendous problems and we need resilience in our own country. You can't tell me that a French company built on his own will behave better depending on a US company!
Guys I'm living in a city equal to Clermont and nearly every medium sised corporates are US company now, doing so you are exposing every employees to what's happening everywhere. Even our agricultural fields are beeing actively buyed by chinees corporates.

We were proud of a french company ! well not anymore, it's sad.

Thanks for sharing your opinion. All the teams based in France (or in other countries) remain here to develop the products and offer the same support. If these people made you feel proud yesterday, hopefully, they will tomorrow.

[Trapista]

This is how I understand this: they might remove the option to convert for $49 anytime, maybe just before you would reach the end of the 12-months. However, you will be able to buy a perpetual at an unknown price, but probably not for $49.

No that means that even if the offer is rescinded at some point during your 12 months, you would be given the opportunity to get your perpetual licenses for the same price, but before your 12 months are over.

A last clarification:
What do you mean by "you would be given the opportunity to get your perpetual licenses for the same price"?
1) The word "same price" refers to the $49 option to convert? (and I assume I will also have to pay the missing months to complete the 12-months, in case all the change happens before the 12-month cycle is completed)..
2) or the word "same price" refers to the option to buy the perpetual at the current full perpetual price - which is $149 per app. (this would be less ideal as this means I might be paying a few months subscription and also I have to pay $149 / app at the end.

Sorry that I am so much on about this..
But I really received a contradictory email, and I don't want a surprise as I don't like Kinder Surprise Eggs type of things. (you always get the wrong toy ). I would like to start either a 12-month long monthly subscription now and convert for $49, or go for an annual and convert. That's all I am looking for "for now" Ideally I would prefer the monthly payment due to budget limitations.
Thanks!

[Vincent Gault]

This is how I understand this: they might remove the option to convert for $49 anytime, maybe just before you would reach the end of the 12-months. However, you will be able to buy a perpetual at an unknown price, but probably not for $49.

No that means that even if the offer is rescinded at some point during your 12 months, you would be given the opportunity to get your perpetual licenses for the same price, but before your 12 months are over.

A last clarification:
What do you mean by "you would be given the opportunity to get your perpetual licenses for the same price"?
1) The word "same price" refers to the $49 option to convert? (and I assume I will also have to pay the missing months to complete the 12-months, in case all the change happens before the 12-month cycle is completed)..
2) or the word "same price" refers to the option to buy the perpetual at the current full perpetual price - which is $149 per app. (this would be less ideal as this means I might be paying a few months subscription and also I have to pay $149 / app at the end.

Sorry that I am so much on about this..
But I really received a contradictory email, and I don't want a surprise as I don't like Kinder Surprise Eggs type of things. (you always get the wrong toy ). I would like to start either a 12-month long monthly subscription now and convert for $49, or go for an annual and convert. That's all I am looking for "for now" Ideally I would prefer the monthly payment due to budget limitations.
Thanks!

In short, it out of the question that would pay more to get your perpetual license compared to the existing system.

1: if we make a change in the Substance monthly offer, you would have the opportunity to either stay (if you like the new system) or to leave. in the second case, if you want a perpetual license, you would have to pay the 49$, and (probably) the remaining months to complete the 12 months.

2: no it's case one

Hope it helps

[Trapista]

Hope it helps

Brilliant, this is 100% clear now and I will start a subscription.

Offer:
I had a legacy Substance Painter 1 license, My account page shows a 6-months offer if I upgrade the legacy license to a monthly plan. Your colleague told me that this offer also counts towards the 12months cycle. I hope she was correct, but please let me know asap if that's not the case.

And by the way, having a perpetual does not mean "leaving" for good. It's not Brexit I am sure I will also subscribe in the future - even if I have the perpetual - because you may have better tools etc. But it's good to own a license too.

[Vincent Gault]

Hope it helps

Brilliant, this is 100% clear now and I will start a subscription.

Offer:
I had a legacy Substance Painter 1 license, My account page shows a 6-months offer if I upgrade the legacy license to a monthly plan. Your colleague told me that this offer also counts towards the 12months cycle. I hope she was correct, but please let me know asap if that's not the case.

And by the way, having a perpetual does not mean "leaving" for good. It's not Brexit I am sure I will also subscribe in the future - even if I have the perpetual - because you may have better tools etc. But it's good to own a license too.

yes, once again if there are changes, we'll make sure that we respect the engagements taken before.