Author Topic: Why Adobe?  (Read 3029 times)

I have to agree, this is sad news, I was already migrating to Affinity Designer and Photo for my 2D things like resizing and authoring Vector pieces to put into Substance, cutting lose from adobe completely has been a 20+ year dream, shattered....

I was worried Autodesk was going to purchase Substance, which would arguably be worse, as Adobe at least lets people continue to work at the places they buy, until they're disillusioned by the lack on innovation, and leave.

On the up side, I'd love to see some Algorithmic people leave, and make their own "Spinoff".

Also a sad day for D-Do and N-Do as they were based on adobe tech, which seemed at least originally compete, and they were not called up for the dance.... I guess, that's how adobe rewards loyalty???

Sad day indeed!   :-[

If anything this is a great day for Quixel. It may be a long and difficult process but now is their time to drop current NDO/DDO and begin work towards a standalone version. They can swoop in and capture the indie/freelance market that Allegorithmic just stabbed in the back.

RIP substance.

I just hope that the prices don't go all the way up like with Adobe licenses :'(
And I hope I'll still be able to buy a permanent license  :-[

I do 3d art as a hobby (I work as a security guard) and so both Adobe and Autodesk are simply not affordable to me.

I left Autodesk Maya (academic license while in college) for Blender.
Then I left Adobe Photoshop/Illustrator for Affinity Photo/Designer.

Now I suppose I'll have to leave Adobe Allegorithmic for 3D Coat since we all know where this is heading:

http://3dcoat.com/manual/paint/360-smartmaterials/

I think for a lot of us who mostly remain silent on the forums (this is only my 2nd post here) because we're not professionals and we only really just do it for fun are the ones who will be the most affected.

I have no problem with Allegorithmic doing whatever they want with their company and you know, things are always changing and at some point we all part ways.

Last Edit: January 25, 2019, 09:52:31 pm

As a CC All Apps subscriber and a Substance Subscriber, I, for one, welcome our new robot overlords.

Honestly, I stopped being all that concerned with CC's prices when I realised my cell phone bill at the time was more expensive.

Two things are obvious.
1) Allegorithmic did not realize how much their user base actually hates Adobe. Their user base was drawn to them being a newer independent studio that was not Adobe.
2) Allegorithmic was too attracted to the financial backing Adobe can bring to the table. This obviously was bait, and it worked. Allegorithmic didn't need to do this in my opinion, they didnt even need to expand as much as they have already. The users were fine with the basics of designer and painter, even if they were updated at a slower pace. All the other stuff is just fluff.

I am one of those people who is done with Adobe. I washed my hands of them long ago and will not be installing CC on my workstation. This means future Substance software is no longer going to be used on my computer. There is no way in hell that Adobe will not force Substance Designer/Painter to be strictly available via CC. We know how this game works.

This also means all the work Allegorithmic will be doing at Adobe will go to waste, simply because so many of us are not going to use CC, PERIOD. Its just not going to happen. When the investors who only care about profit margin and ROI see they are not getting the complete carry over of Allegorithmic users, they won't be happy either. So I am not so sure the new Adobe branch should be celebrating just yet.

That said, thankfully there are some alternatives out there that, while not nearly as polished as Designer/Painter, can still cover most of the same territory.

I recommend looking at 3D Coat for now, even if you don't use it for texturing, the retopology/UV features are extremely good and who knows you may enjoy sculpting in there as well if you don't use Zbrush.

The other bit of software to seriously consider switching over to is Blender believe it or not. Big changes happened with 2.8, and I think there's enough work being done to show off both a nodal (procedural) and a projection based painting approach. 3rd Party plugins are also being developed for Blender which can hit that sweet spot, for example https://armorpaint.org/news.html

I doubt 3D coat will ever be bought out and Blender is open source, thus at least the two can remain free from the usual industry bad guys.

This is my first post. I have been in the industry as a professional, hobbyist, independant contractor and teacher. Adobe has historically made bad decisions. They have poor software support and do not really update their toolset. Their autopay system is crap. If there was another 2d program comparable to photoshop i would never ever use them again. I say buy substance designer 6 and painter 2 standalone and be thankful for the last few years we actually had good software for a PBR workflow.  :'( ill miss you guys..

Two things are obvious.
1) Allegorithmic did not realize how much their user base actually hates Adobe. Their user base was drawn to them being a newer independent studio that was not Adobe.
2) Allegorithmic was too attracted to the financial backing Adobe can bring to the table. This obviously was bait, and it worked. Allegorithmic didn't need to do this in my opinion, they didnt even need to expand as much as they have already. The users were fine with the basics of designer and painter, even if they were updated at a slower pace. All the other stuff is just fluff.

1) We knew, If anything we underestimated how much people loved us rather than how much people disliked Adobe.

2) You are right, we didn't need to at all, but we wanted to, because it's an everyday frustration to have ideas you know will revolutionize 3D creation and not being able to carry them further than the idea stage because of a lack of resources and time.

Two things are obvious.
1) Allegorithmic did not realize how much their user base actually hates Adobe. Their user base was drawn to them being a newer independent studio that was not Adobe.
2) Allegorithmic was too attracted to the financial backing Adobe can bring to the table. This obviously was bait, and it worked. Allegorithmic didn't need to do this in my opinion, they didnt even need to expand as much as they have already. The users were fine with the basics of designer and painter, even if they were updated at a slower pace. All the other stuff is just fluff.

1) We knew, If anything we underestimated how much people loved us rather than how much people disliked Adobe.

2) You are right, we didn't need to at all, but we wanted to, because it's an everyday frustration to have ideas you know will revolutionize 3D creation and not being able to carry them further than the idea stage because of a lack of resources and time.

Jeremie, I think you're missing what the real issue is. People love Allegorithmic, but once you mix Adobe into everything it's no longer 'Allegorithmic'. If you put out a public poll prior to the deal, or even 2 years ago asking how the community would feel about this you would know very quickly that majority of people would be extremely against the idea of Adobe acquiring Allegorithmic. As a business owner myself, I understand how these deals go and why they happen. Heck, I'm a shareholder as well, and I've worked at both publicly traded companies, and private.

People here don't like Adobe, and we're all worried that within due time Adobe will rip out everything that made Allegorithmic great and cater to a dumbed down audience while attaching a hefty subscription model.

Heck, if I hated Allegorithmic I wouldn't even be on these forums today, and aside from my "rants" I enjoy helping people fix problems they're having using the software as well.

What you're seeing here would happen in any industry, and any acquisition in which the user base despises the new parent company. People are most likely more upset with the shot callers that made this happen, and not the staff and community we communicate with.

We're all hoping for the best. :)

Just be thankful it wasn't sold to Autodesk!!!!!!

This is my first post. I have been in the industry as a professional, hobbyist, independant contractor and teacher. Adobe has historically made bad decisions. They have poor software support and do not really update their toolset. Their autopay system is crap. If there was another 2d program comparable to photoshop i would never ever use them again. I say buy substance designer 6 and painter 2 standalone and be thankful for the last few years we actually had good software for a PBR workflow.  :'( ill miss you guys..

Check out Affinity Photo, it has a low one-time license fee. As for Adobe, I understand people's reactions, but let's wait, don't bash on it just yet, give these guys a chance to show us they are doing the right move. Later on down the road, if it doesn't work out, then consider alternatives, but don't quit without knowing the roadmap, which I'm assuming will have to pop out there soon. I have faith in the team behind Allegorithmic


1) We knew, If anything we underestimated how much people loved us rather than how much people disliked Adobe...



I don't see HOW you could have missed how much your customers LOVED you and your company??

There was hardly ever a time were I made a post about Substance, or Allegorithmic, that I didn't mention how "unhealthy" I felt my love was for you guys, your company and the tools you make!

I would tell Wes in nearly every post he made over at the Modo forums or on YouTube how he makes me a better artist with every one of his posts and/or tutorials!  Wes is an amazing hero to me!

I'm sorry, but I can't imagine you guys simply stating what you would have liked to accomplish and ask for a funding spree - say like how Blender has done for their v2.8, and be denied by any of us!

I certainly would have donated extra to any project you may have proposed!  I was already looking forward to the new program you mentioned recently, and was amazed with the thought in the back of my mind of yet a fourth program being available for my subscription!

Hell you are THE ONLY company I had no problems with staying on subscription (Epic/UE4 was the other until they went free); I have yet to ever cash out a perpetual license after all my payments - now I have to consider doing so!



If you had just asked your user base before going down this path - I'm sure we would responded with total support for Allegorithmic and any project proposal - it's a shame you didn't have faith in us, your user base and did this to us...


I always say you never know someone till you see them angry; everything may be cool now between you and Adobe - but just think to yourself, what would happen now if you said "umm, I think we'd like to back out of this "being acquired" (which the thought in itself sounds nasty) and see what happens.

Reminds me what what happened when we heard Modo had merged, (got acquired) by a larger corporation.

Where's everyone now??  Some are cleaning up plastics out of the oceans (and yes, that's a noble cause; however not quite the 3D career book ending one would have expected considering the charisma and flair of their larger than life personality?)

...Another beloved member recently leaving for a sneaker company? (...And there's nothing wrong with sneakers - I usually buy a new pair every 10-years or so being I hardly ever wear them...)


It's things like this that happens after doing similar to what you've done.


Folks are already saying "...leave and start over..."  PUHLEEZEE, Pffft - forget about it!

You guys and your company, Allegorithmic singlehandedly made the 3D industry a better, more enjoyable place to work in with your tools - a GOOD, GOT DAMN Lifetime Achievement, frankly these Substance tools are that you've created for everyone - hobbyists like myself, professionals and big productions pipelines.


Just know the day, for whatever reason, whether a year, (or more) from now, when you leave Adobe, just like the example above, you'll walk out that door without that greatest, most wonderful 3D industry achievement YOU GUYS MADE.

All YOUR wonderful, hard, work will end up slowly circling, crossing into that event horizon of the black hole where a good majority of wonderful programs go...

I hope you won't feel as sad as all of us, your customer base are feeling now...


-Will
Last Edit: January 28, 2019, 10:33:15 pm

Two things are obvious.
1) Allegorithmic did not realize how much their user base actually hates Adobe. Their user base was drawn to them being a newer independent studio that was not Adobe.
2) Allegorithmic was too attracted to the financial backing Adobe can bring to the table. This obviously was bait, and it worked. Allegorithmic didn't need to do this in my opinion, they didnt even need to expand as much as they have already. The users were fine with the basics of designer and painter, even if they were updated at a slower pace. All the other stuff is just fluff.

1) We knew, If anything we underestimated how much people loved us rather than how much people disliked Adobe.

2) You are right, we didn't need to at all, but we wanted to, because it's an everyday frustration to have ideas you know will revolutionize 3D creation and not being able to carry them further than the idea stage because of a lack of resources and time.

1. It's not entirely about that.
2. You basically bent the knee to them, despite the overwhelming advantage that you 'had' - past tense.

This was something that was ours, and now it is not.

It all rather seems like a spineless and fearful move on your part as a company in the face of a rather predatory monopoly...Please correct me if I'm wrong?
Last Edit: January 30, 2019, 10:00:43 pm

I would argue that it's much scarier for Sébastien and for all of us to sell what we've been slowly building for the better part of our lives than it would have been to just keep on going and not change anything. Change is scary and requires courage, much more than keeping the status quo.

Change is scary and requires courage, much more than keeping the status quo.

Problem is, the "status quo" is what we were trying to get away from by not using Adobe. All Allegorithmic ended up doing is getting groomed to become part of the status quo. The risk you face is losing control of your IP, yeah it can be scary, but also kind of stupid if you value the ownership of the work you put into it. If you value something, you try to preserve what made it good, you preserve what it is. Change is often the opposite of preserving something you value.

It is highly likely you guys will find yourself not working for Adobe in the future, as is the usual pattern, only difference is that IP you build will not go with you. For us, as the user base, this is a form of tragedy.