Author Topic: Allegorithmic is joining the Adobe family (part 1)  (Read 171708 times)

I'd like to hear an official statement from Allegorithmic or Adobe itself about the future of GNU/Linux versions of Designer and Painter.

What will happen to those builds after SD/SP are swallowed by the "Creative Cloud"? As far as I know, Adobe has absolutely no connection with this operating system and have been unwilling to port any of its programs to it for many years. Apparently, for them the profit from studios and users using GNU/Linux is not worth the cost. This is why I have a reason to suspect that both versions will be eventually "extinguished". How would we install them anyway if we consider the fact that GNU/Linux "Creative Cloud" client doesn't event exist?
Last Edit: January 27, 2019, 12:11:20 am

1) It makes Painter look easy to use
There's no fast mouse movements or anything too complex going on. It makes the viewer think "hey, I could easily stamp my logo onto a 3D product! That's awesome!"

THIS IS NOT A GOOD THING. We are using and want PROFESSIONAL software, not Adobe Stock 3D Asset Stamp and Post Instagram bait.

I have to point out one very strange thing going on in this thread. On the one hand we have calls like this for professional software, on the other we have probably the same people complaining that CC rental scheme is too expensive... at 10 bucks a month for Photoshop. I'd say at least pick one, because both is pretty silly.

It's $10 a month in 12 month commitments, cancel early and you pay every remaining month of that year, also you never own the software and pay forever and ever and ever, also it requires you install a bloated, so poorly made it's borderline malware CC launcher.

Painter + Designer + B2M with Substance Source credits are $20 combined, they can be cancelled at any time without commitment fees, you can buy perpetual licenses or convert a 12 month rental license into a perpetual and each one is a standalone program installed from its own .exe with no bloated launcher.

They are not comparable in any way.
Last Edit: January 27, 2019, 12:25:47 am

I'd like to hear an official statement from Allegorithmic or Adobe itself about the future of GNU/Linux versions of Designer and Painter.

What will happen to those builds after SD/SP are swallowed by the "Creative Cloud"?

The Linux versions will not disappear, there are several options we are discussing internally, none of which is discontinuing the Linux builds. All our other tools currently in development also have Linux versions.

Okay, Thanks for the info, Jeremie. I just hope they will be available as they were - downloadable .rpm packages, and not part of the bloated CC.

Okay, Thanks for the info, Jeremie. I just hope they will be available as they were - downloadable .rpm packages, and not part of the bloated CC.

Substance is moving to the Creative Cloud, Adobe made this abundantly clear.

https://theblog.adobe.com/adobe-acquires-allegorithmic-substance-3D-gaming/

1) It makes Painter look easy to use
There's no fast mouse movements or anything too complex going on. It makes the viewer think "hey, I could easily stamp my logo onto a 3D product! That's awesome!"

THIS IS NOT A GOOD THING. We are using and want PROFESSIONAL software, not Adobe Stock 3D Asset Stamp and Post Instagram bait.

I have to point out one very strange thing going on in this thread. On the one hand we have calls like this for professional software, on the other we have probably the same people complaining that CC rental scheme is too expensive... at 10 bucks a month for Photoshop. I'd say at least pick one, because both is pretty silly.

It's $10 a month in 12 month commitments, cancel early and you pay every remaining month of that year, also you never own the software and pay forever and ever and ever, also it requires you install a bloated, so poorly made it's borderline malware CC launcher.

Painter + Designer + B2M with Substance Source credits are $20 combined, they can be cancelled at any time without commitment fees, you can buy perpetual licenses or convert a 12 month rental license into a perpetual and each one is a standalone program installed from its own .exe with no bloated launcher.

They are not comparable in any way.

Still for anyone proclaiming they need professional software, 10 bucks a month is ridiculously cheap. No matter how long you pay it, Photoshop for 10 bucks a month is a steal. Even if you paid this for 10 years, you'd still be at a total of what the software would probably cost by then if you bought a perpetual license. But you also got all updates on the way that you would have had to buy separately with perpetual. Whether or not you wanted/needed those updates is a different topic of course, but that's the math.

I'm merely pointing out that calls for professional software are a bit funny when the same people claim that Substance prices are the only thing they can afford and CC is too expensive. At least acknowledge that Substance licensing was way too good to begin with. Mari costs 2k perpetual or 59 per month with a yearly commitment and no rent-to-own option at all. Photoshop is the most dirt cheap industry standard software you can get today, and the sub includes Lightroom on top. 2-3 frigging coffees per month for that.

1) It makes Painter look easy to use
There's no fast mouse movements or anything too complex going on. It makes the viewer think "hey, I could easily stamp my logo onto a 3D product! That's awesome!"

THIS IS NOT A GOOD THING. We are using and want PROFESSIONAL software, not Adobe Stock 3D Asset Stamp and Post Instagram bait.

I have to point out one very strange thing going on in this thread. On the one hand we have calls like this for professional software, on the other we have probably the same people complaining that CC rental scheme is too expensive... at 10 bucks a month for Photoshop. I'd say at least pick one, because both is pretty silly.

It's $10 a month in 12 month commitments, cancel early and you pay every remaining month of that year, also you never own the software and pay forever and ever and ever, also it requires you install a bloated, so poorly made it's borderline malware CC launcher.

Painter + Designer + B2M with Substance Source credits are $20 combined, they can be cancelled at any time without commitment fees, you can buy perpetual licenses or convert a 12 month rental license into a perpetual and each one is a standalone program installed from its own .exe with no bloated launcher.

They are not comparable in any way.

Still for anyone proclaiming they need professional software, 10 bucks a month is ridiculously cheap. No matter how long you pay it, Photoshop for 10 bucks a month is a steal.

No, the only steal happening on this business model is the theft Adobe is committing by making you pay forever and never own anything. You're not pointing out anything, you're being a contrarian for the sake of standing out online.

It's cute that you keep hanging onto Photoshop too, and ignore the $20.99 price tag for everything else they sell, all individually. You won't pay $20 for the Substance Suite, you'll pay $20.99 for B2M, $20.99 for Designer and $20.99 for Painter.

Just like you have to today if you want Premiere + After Effects + Audition as a full video creation suite.

1) It makes Painter look easy to use
There's no fast mouse movements or anything too complex going on. It makes the viewer think "hey, I could easily stamp my logo onto a 3D product! That's awesome!"

THIS IS NOT A GOOD THING. We are using and want PROFESSIONAL software, not Adobe Stock 3D Asset Stamp and Post Instagram bait.

I have to point out one very strange thing going on in this thread. On the one hand we have calls like this for professional software, on the other we have probably the same people complaining that CC rental scheme is too expensive... at 10 bucks a month for Photoshop. I'd say at least pick one, because both is pretty silly.

It's $10 a month in 12 month commitments, cancel early and you pay every remaining month of that year, also you never own the software and pay forever and ever and ever, also it requires you install a bloated, so poorly made it's borderline malware CC launcher.

Painter + Designer + B2M with Substance Source credits are $20 combined, they can be cancelled at any time without commitment fees, you can buy perpetual licenses or convert a 12 month rental license into a perpetual and each one is a standalone program installed from its own .exe with no bloated launcher.

They are not comparable in any way.

Still for anyone proclaiming they need professional software, 10 bucks a month is ridiculously cheap. No matter how long you pay it, Photoshop for 10 bucks a month is a steal.

No, the only steal happening on this business model is the theft Adobe is committing by making you pay forever and never own anything. You're not pointing out anything, you're being a contrarian for the sake of standing out online.

It's cute that you keep hanging onto Photoshop too, and ignore the $20.99 price tag for everything else they sell, all individually. You won't pay $20 for the Substance Suite, you'll pay $20.99 for B2M, $20.99 for Designer and $20.99 for Painter.

Just like you have to today if you want Premiere + After Effects + Audition as a full video creation suite.

Yeah yeah, ok. Claim to be a pro and that 10 bucks a month for an industry standard software is theft. I'm not trying to stand out by the way, if you go back in this thread you see me just as worried as everyone. That doesn't mean I can't point out some things that (gasp) may defend Adobe just a little bit.

Looks like Gahdmor on Reddit just accidentally let slip Substances move to Creative Cloud. They've been trying really hard to dodge the question since the announcement but when someone complained about having to pay $60 for CC he replied that you could just choose Substance rather than the entire thing. Cute that they keep claiming that nothing is decided yet and they're still working on it but it's obvious it's all decided already



Don't listen to a word these Staff posters are saying, they're lying through their teeth.

Looks like Gahdmor on Reddit just accidentally let slip Substances move to Creative Cloud. They've been trying really hard to dodge the question since the announcement but when someone complained about having to pay $60 for CC he replied that you could just choose Substance rather than the entire thing. Cute that they keep claiming that nothing is decided yet and they're still working on it but it's obvious it's all decided already



Don't listen to a word these Staff posters are saying, they're lying through their teeth.

Because Adobe runs the show now regardless.  ::)
I teach people how to use Substance Painter. :)

We would appreciate a minimum of respect, we are engaging with you as much as we can (and working on week ends) if you are not interested in what we have to say or will call us liars, you're welcome to do that elsewhere.

Calling you liars ?  When you say you are joining Adobe, I think people believe your every word....which is what has caused a problem.  You are only working weekends for damage limitation....which you all ruthlessly calculated beforehand.  When the last customer survey was done, was there any question there asking people if "Hey, do you mind if we sign up with Adobe ?".  No, there wasn't, but you were perfectly happy to mine other data under a smokescreen.  By flipping the trust and respect on it's head, you have trashed months of weekends for thousands of people.  And all because of one guy and his King Midas Peter Jackson moment.  Still, your software, do as you will...but surely you can't expect things to ever be the same after this ?

Last Edit: January 27, 2019, 04:06:36 am

Still for anyone proclaiming they need professional software, 10 bucks a month is ridiculously cheap. No matter how long you pay it, Photoshop for 10 bucks a month is a steal. Even if you paid this for 10 years, you'd still be at a total of what the software would probably cost by then if you bought a perpetual license. But you also got all updates on the way that you would have had to buy separately with perpetual. Whether or not you wanted/needed those updates is a different topic of course, but that's the math.

I think it all comes down to whether or not one considers software a "product" or a "service."

For decades, software has been sold as a product. Whether you download it, or get it on disk, you have a somewhat tangible file, (or files,) in your possession that allows you to install the software on your computer. If you get a new computer, you can use the file/disk to install the software on your new computer, (with some limitations spelled out in the license.)

Adobe is trying to change the perception of software as a product, redefining it as a service, something you pay for the use of for a finite period of time. Like cable or cell service. If you buy into that definition, then you won't have a problem with the fact you lose access when you cannot pay the subscription service.

But what happens when it's not just one software suite? What happens when we have to pay Adobe for all our graphics programs, and Microsoft/Apple/etc. for an operating system and office apps, and who knows who else for what other programs that become necessities in our workflow?

What happens is more people turn to open source software, donating to projects that can't be bought up or sold out.

In short, software as a service is not a sustainable business model. I don't care how big Adobe is. Their current success with subscription-only software has other companies looking to do the same. At some point, the need to pay subscriptions for software will outstrip the market's ability to pay. New businesses will be started by people who turned their back on proprietary software, and who won't turn back to it later. Those businesses will be looking to hire people who are experienced running the open source programs they use. Demand for people who are comfortable and productive using Linux and Linux based programs will become the hiring norm.

And software companies that relied on the subscription-only format will be scrambling to sell perpetual licenses again. But I predict it will be too little, too late and the markets those companies hope to win back will have all but dried up.

Allegorithmic did it right. A subscription service coupled with perpetual licenses. Customers could chose what made the most sense for their use and budget. And if they wanted to, they could convert a subscription to a perpetual license. And once they bought the PL, they could still buy into a maintenance plan.

As a previously loyal Adobe customer, I would be delighted if the culture of Allegorithmic infected Adobe and brought about change. But with decades of experience and observation of large corporations, I'm afraid it will be this wonderful Allegorithmic culture that withers and dies. I pray the Allegorithmic software doesn't suffer the same fate.

There’s an article on Adobe’s blog that explains how Allegorithmic’s products will fit into their product line-up, "Gaming Technology is Changing How We Design and Visualize Products".

https://theblog.adobe.com/gaming-technology-changing-design-visualize-products/

Some of it puts me at ease, some of it raises an eyebrow. Here’s a few excerpts:



Quote
Adobe is planning to develop additional workflows to make video compositing a more immediate and seamless experience. By expanding the 3D capabilities in After Effects, it will be possible to bring 3D content textured in Substance tools directly into After Effects and composite 3D and 2D content in real-time.


Quote
The Aero engine uses PBR as its primary material type, leveraging machine learning technology in the lighting space to bring the best photorealism and making real and virtual objects indistinguishable in AR. The existing workflow between Substance Painter and Dimension is currently the best way to bring 3D models with PBR materials into Aero, and more workflows will follow.

Quote
We’re now seeing more and more innovation emerge in other industries traditionally more focused on physical products and product design, like CPG, apparel, retail, packaging, and more.… With Allegorithmic’s tools, companies can now leverage the 3D models of their product across the entire customer experience – from e-commerce content to marketing material, from catalogues to immersive experiences.

Quote
With the acquisition of Allegorithmic, Adobe will also broaden the integration of the Substance SDK in its products, making Substance even more of a worldwide standard for materials. For example, the Substance SDK is already used inside Adobe Capture, the first app on the market capable of creating a PBR material in real-time from a single photo. Substance SDK is also integrated with the industry’s most used 3D tools and engines and provides a unique interoperability.

Quote
With PBR as a material standard and Substance as its editing format, Adobe is bringing a unified material pipeline for gaming, film, product visualization and design to the world.
Last Edit: January 27, 2019, 05:35:29 am

Of course Substance will be part of the CC suite, as are all Adobe apps. No one ever denied this, why would anyone think otherwise? The only open question/fear is if newer versions will eventually be ONLY available through CC. As owner of a perpetual license I don't hope so.

Still, calling CC wildly expensive or massive bloatware is lacking any sense of proportion. The whole CC suite (20+ apps) costs about the same as Modo (subscription), but less than half of what Autodesk charges for Max or Maya alone. And the CC app takes up less than 50 MB of RAM which is neglible on any reasonable workstation and has never crashed or interfered with my work in any way. Don't get me wrong, I dislike the idea of software as a service and understand anybody who doesn't want to be a part of that, but be fair.

But wow, Adobe's vision for the future of Substance sounds horrible (thanks for the link, 87sunny!).
Quote
Gaming Technology is Changing How We Design and Visualize Products
Ugh.
Let's take something really cool and see how we can use it for something uncool! Yay!