Author Topic: Allegorithmic is joining the Adobe family (part 1)  (Read 101215 times)

Been looking at 3DCoat and Z-Brush. They look interesting but come with a higher pricetag. Especially Z-Brush. Forget about Mari. 2000$?? get outta here.


ZBrush may cost a little more but once you buy its yours for life with upgrades for life. I bought my copy of ZBrush in 2007. Its the same license, more than 10 years of updates, not a penny more was asked of me. But you know what, because they didn't push me to buy or pay for upgrades or do anything underhanded I bought more licenses for my home computer and my work computer, and converted a few coworkers into liking and using ZBrush.

Pixologic is a company that has done everything right in terms of customer focus and customer priority. Other companies should take a good hard look at Pixologic and do what they did. Thats how you become a stable long term and loved company.



3D Coat has a serious problem that should send every artist screaming in the opposite direction. They've terminated and revoke licenses on the personal opinion of the owners that the artists work was obscene (like creating a nude sculpture,  a nude human form, excessive gore, or that felt it belittled or demeaned their religion) without refund.

See their own personal statement here:

https://3dcoat.com/about-us/our-voice/

I personally would never financially support a company that will actively take their personal beliefs into action with how they treat customers and their own personal works of art.

Guys and girls,
I asked Andrew, CEO of Pilgway about this, here is what he says:
"Even if I am Christian, I am for freedom and generally against any censoring and limitations. Many years ago we removed any limitations from using the software. You may tell it to peoples on forums. We will never judge or limit artists. And if something is written in our voice - it is just opinion, nothing more. I am completely for freedom of creativity. We don't judge artists and we expect they will not judge our views."

I think this is fair enough.

My perpetual yearly maintenance expires in August 2019 (purchased it in August 2018.)  Can I expect the same quality up of updates (maintenance) for the 6-7 months that I paid for?  Or will the "crew" be working on updating there letterheads, resumes, and Adobe stuff like company training and integration into CC?  Should I be afraid of installing an update to Designer or Paint before my yearly maintenance ends?

Like many others, I maintain an Adobe free workflow and will continue that in the future.

I have the same question. (My perpetual license expires in November of this year, and I wonder, too, if there will be any real updates and if the answer is yes, will they actually be safe to install them now with Adobe having their hands in the jar.)

Like others, I've also wondered why Allego couldn't just raise the price if they needed the money to expand. But I guess Adobe offered a bigger amount than what they could have gotten from us, their customers. Plus, apparently, Adobe has been grooming Allego for quite some time for this.

For Adobe, it makes sense to acquire Substance: I imagine they lost a lot of customers who didn't need Photoshop anymore for texturing. And for studios and people who already pay subscription to Adobe this might not be a big deal. But for those of us who refuse to go the subscription route (especially with Adobe) and don't want to lose the possibility of having perpetual licenses this is quite tragic.


I would recommend saving installation versions (and licenses) of your Suite on a cloud, so that you don't need to visit the website to reinstall at any time (or on new computers).

This way you can also potentially downgrade if Adobe sneaks something into a future install. It could even be a subtle re-wording of the agreement you have to look at before each reinstallation, which may trick you into something you don't actually want.
Last Edit: January 25, 2019, 05:40:50 pm
3D art is magic.

Been looking at 3DCoat and Z-Brush. They look interesting but come with a higher pricetag. Especially Z-Brush. Forget about Mari. 2000$?? get outta here.


ZBrush may cost a little more but once you buy its yours for life with upgrades for life. I bought my copy of ZBrush in 2007. Its the same license, more than 10 years of updates, not a penny more was asked of me. But you know what, because they didn't push me to buy or pay for upgrades or do anything underhanded I bought more licenses for my home computer and my work computer, and converted a few coworkers into liking and using ZBrush.

Pixologic is a company that has done everything right in terms of customer focus and customer priority. Other companies should take a good hard look at Pixologic and do what they did. Thats how you become a stable long term and loved company.



3D Coat has a serious problem that should send every artist screaming in the opposite direction. They've terminated and revoke licenses on the personal opinion of the owners that the artists work was obscene (like creating a nude sculpture,  a nude human form, excessive gore, or that felt it belittled or demeaned their religion) without refund.

See their own personal statement here:

https://3dcoat.com/about-us/our-voice/

I personally would never financially support a company that will actively take their personal beliefs into action with how they treat customers and their own personal works of art.

Guys and girls,
I asked Andrew, CEO of Pilgway about this, here is what he says:
"Even if I am Christian, I am for freedom and generally against any censoring and limitations. Many years ago we removed any limitations from using the software. You may tell it to peoples on forums. We will never judge or limit artists. And if something is written in our voice - it is just opinion, nothing more. I am completely for freedom of creativity. We don't judge artists and we expect they will not judge our views."

I think this is fair enough.

The steam EULA still says:
"4.1 The 3D-Coat software should not be used in the production of any pornographic production in correspondence to international laws." 

Which seems weird. I mean do they not care if you break copyright laws with it or other laws, only porn laws?

When Substance finally gets UDIMs, Adobe will say "hold on with that update, let's save it for CC subscribers only".
Last Edit: January 25, 2019, 05:46:39 pm

Been looking at 3DCoat and Z-Brush. They look interesting but come with a higher pricetag. Especially Z-Brush. Forget about Mari. 2000$?? get outta here.


ZBrush may cost a little more but once you buy its yours for life with upgrades for life. I bought my copy of ZBrush in 2007. Its the same license, more than 10 years of updates, not a penny more was asked of me. But you know what, because they didn't push me to buy or pay for upgrades or do anything underhanded I bought more licenses for my home computer and my work computer, and converted a few coworkers into liking and using ZBrush.

Pixologic is a company that has done everything right in terms of customer focus and customer priority. Other companies should take a good hard look at Pixologic and do what they did. Thats how you become a stable long term and loved company.



3D Coat has a serious problem that should send every artist screaming in the opposite direction. They've terminated and revoke licenses on the personal opinion of the owners that the artists work was obscene (like creating a nude sculpture,  a nude human form, excessive gore, or that felt it belittled or demeaned their religion) without refund.

See their own personal statement here:

https://3dcoat.com/about-us/our-voice/

I personally would never financially support a company that will actively take their personal beliefs into action with how they treat customers and their own personal works of art.

Guys and girls,
I asked Andrew, CEO of Pilgway about this, here is what he says:
"Even if I am Christian, I am for freedom and generally against any censoring and limitations. Many years ago we removed any limitations from using the software. You may tell it to peoples on forums. We will never judge or limit artists. And if something is written in our voice - it is just opinion, nothing more. I am completely for freedom of creativity. We don't judge artists and we expect they will not judge our views."

I think this is fair enough.

Yeah. It still rubs me the wrong way to be honest, but compared to selling out to Adobe? A few religious words and bible citations on a web site, however misguided that may seem to me and others, is still the lesser of two evils in the grand scheme of things. Who knows, maybe those religious beliefs would even have prevented such a thing to happen.

When Substance finally gets UDIMs, Adobe will say "hold on with that update, let's save it for CC subscribers only".

Arrr matey, those be pirate-infested waters....
3D art is magic.

When Substance finally gets UDIMs, Adobe will say "hold on with that update, let's save it for CC subscribers only".

Exactly!  I strongly suspect maintenance updates will be manipulated, which goes against all the "ethical stuff" we are hearing from Allegorithmic right now.
(23Jun20) Ryzen 1800x,  Samsung 970 EVO 1tb NVME-M.2 SSD, EVGA SuperNOVA 1000w G2 PS
Corsair Vengeance 64GB DDR4 3200 Mem, GeForce GTX 1080 Ti FTW3 446.14 (27May18), Win 10 Pro x64

I would recommend saving installation versions (and licenses) of your Suite on a cloud, so that you don't need to visit the website to reinstall at any time (or on new computers).

This way you can also potentially downgrade if Adobe sneaks something into a future install. It could even be a subtle re-wording of the agreement you have to look at before each reinstallation, which may trick you into something you don't actually want.

Speaking of sneaking things in....
I noticed an update available this morning in SP where one of the items was like License: Install automatically into a user folder.
Anyone know where I can find out a bit more on what that actually means?
Could be nothing, but I wont't be trusting Adobe ever again so am suitably suspicious of everything right now - and seeing this just a couple days after the announcement...

I think we can all relax quite a bit, honestly. Think about this:

The Substance software as it stands is already capable of fantastic texture jobs, even if you didn't update it anymore.

You could probably subsist on your perpetual license for another 10 years and avoid the cloud entirely, until a proper competitor reveals itself.

Even if Adobe publishes flashy new tools, I don't think it would impact your ability to make awesome textures without them, using the current tools.

 ;)

Exactly, Allegorithmic's tools are basically perfected (maybe they even sold out because there's not much more to develop and might be that adobe bought a sinking ship) and we'll do fine with no updates. I'm assured their tools won't flourish under adobe, so I'm not worried about missing those updates. Heck, I even expect them to be full of adobe related malware. Back up multiple software versions and your licence keys guys, bloatware is coming.

What is sad is this can go over 100 pages of mostly negativity feedback and it won’t do a damn thing. They are probably not listening anymore. I mean they knew this was going to happen, right. They have been trained by Adobe who has been getting negative feedback for years since starting subscription only. I bet its Adobe who prepared them for this.

Even if the community started to boycott, it won’t matter. The community is comprised of just insignificant little ants that can’t do anything but to find alternatives, isn’t that right Adobe (formerly known as Allegorithmic). Maybe if the community boycott the gaming companies who use substance because that’s what Adobe (formerly known as Allegorithmic) cater to now. Like Jerc said the gaming companies are happy with this change.

Just face the facts Substance will be part of CC (which they say will be a good thing in the long run, for Adobe that is.)

So, community wait for that great announcement of “Substance is now part of CC! All you have to do is pay for the rest of your lives!”

What is sad is this can go over 100 pages of mostly negativity feedback and it won’t do a damn thing. They are probably not listening anymore. I mean they knew this was going to happen, right. They have been trained by Adobe who has been getting negative feedback for years since starting subscription only. I bet its Adobe who prepared them for this.

Even if the community started to boycott, it won’t matter. The community is comprised of just insignificant little ants that can’t do anything but to find alternatives, isn’t that right Adobe (formerly known as Allegorithmic). Maybe if the community boycott the gaming companies who use substance because that’s what Adobe (formerly known as Allegorithmic) cater to now. Like Jerc said the gaming companies are happy with this change.

Just face the facts Substance will be part of CC (which they say will be a good thing in the long run, for Adobe that is.)

So, community wait for that great announcement of “Substance is now part of CC! All you have to do is pay for the rest of your lives!”

Rest assured, this adobe-Allegorithmic business has stepped on enough toes that I wouldn't be surprised to see multiple competitors rising from the ashes in short order. Wait and see.

Someone's going to steal the limelight.
Last Edit: January 25, 2019, 06:18:25 pm
3D art is magic.

Been looking at 3DCoat and Z-Brush. They look interesting but come with a higher pricetag. Especially Z-Brush. Forget about Mari. 2000$?? get outta here.


ZBrush may cost a little more but once you buy its yours for life with upgrades for life. I bought my copy of ZBrush in 2007. Its the same license, more than 10 years of updates, not a penny more was asked of me. But you know what, because they didn't push me to buy or pay for upgrades or do anything underhanded I bought more licenses for my home computer and my work computer, and converted a few coworkers into liking and using ZBrush.

Pixologic is a company that has done everything right in terms of customer focus and customer priority. Other companies should take a good hard look at Pixologic and do what they did. Thats how you become a stable long term and loved company.



3D Coat has a serious problem that should send every artist screaming in the opposite direction. They've terminated and revoke licenses on the personal opinion of the owners that the artists work was obscene (like creating a nude sculpture,  a nude human form, excessive gore, or that felt it belittled or demeaned their religion) without refund.

See their own personal statement here:

https://3dcoat.com/about-us/our-voice/

I personally would never financially support a company that will actively take their personal beliefs into action with how they treat customers and their own personal works of art.

Guys and girls,
I asked Andrew, CEO of Pilgway about this, here is what he says:
"Even if I am Christian, I am for freedom and generally against any censoring and limitations. Many years ago we removed any limitations from using the software. You may tell it to peoples on forums. We will never judge or limit artists. And if something is written in our voice - it is just opinion, nothing more. I am completely for freedom of creativity. We don't judge artists and we expect they will not judge our views."

I think this is fair enough.

The steam EULA still says:
"4.1 The 3D-Coat software should not be used in the production of any pornographic production in correspondence to international laws." 

Which seems weird. I mean do they not care if you break copyright laws with it or other laws, only porn laws?

I am not here to advertise 3DCoat nor to protect them, so the last about this:
Andrew says:
"This line was removed from EULA many years ago. Where have you found it? EULA in 3D-Coat's distributive has only 2 restrictions:
4 RESTRICTIONS
4.1 You may not attempt to extract the source code of the Software by disassemble or any other means.
4.2 You may not use Demo version, Academic version and Educational version of the Software in commercial purposes for your profit.
Any other EULA is not correct. If any other EULA exists anywhere - this is a mistake, we will fix it if we know where is it still placed."

3D Coat is good software but it's yet another example of a product being dumped on steam and not supported on steam. Dev is not active on steam discussion area, sometimes the software is not discounted in the big sales, sometimes steam version is not updated when the program is updated on main web site etc. And the EULA needs to be updated on steam too apparently.

This just in about Quixel:

From the Foundry forums:
Quote from MarcinB : I hope that Adobe will remember about different pricing for Indie (single freelancers with small year income).


I share a similar sentiment...but for Quixel's upcoming Suite 3.

Teddy, Quixel founder, posted another of his heartfelt letters to his supporters on their closed-to-the-public facebook account (which someone re-posted on reddit). Basically saying Suite 3 will be standalone, it's being currently worked on, they're running out of cash but still managing. He also has indicated getting no support from Adobe when they reached out to them for issues with their existing toolset with a particular version or update to Photoshop. Basically unresponsive. (But no indication in the letter how this relates to Adobe getting in bed with Allegorithmic.)

Well, if they can release it sooner and fill the void. Attract all the disenfranchised ex-substance users into one camp again. That would help bring back "happy days" again for this particular community. And hopefully....they can copy Allegorithmic's store playbook where people have more buying options than just one. More than just a monthly subscription like what (sadly) Quixel currently offers for it's Mixer tool (but tiered, meaning you pay more depending on your revenue profile).

Support Quixel!
Last Edit: January 25, 2019, 06:34:44 pm