Allegorithmic is joining the Adobe family (part 1)

[kevin.frey]

Been looking at 3DCoat and Z-Brush. They look interesting but come with a higher pricetag. Especially Z-Brush. Forget about Mari. 2000$?? get outta here.

ZBrush may cost a little more but once you buy its yours for life with upgrades for life. I bought my copy of ZBrush in 2007. Its the same license, more than 10 years of updates, not a penny more was asked of me. But you know what, because they didn't push me to buy or pay for upgrades or do anything underhanded I bought more licenses for my home computer and my work computer, and converted a few coworkers into liking and using ZBrush.

Pixologic is a company that has done everything right in terms of customer focus and customer priority. Other companies should take a good hard look at Pixologic and do what they did. Thats how you become a stable long term and loved company.



3D Coat has a serious problem that should send every artist screaming in the opposite direction. They've terminated and revoke licenses on the personal opinion of the owners that the artists work was obscene (like creating a nude sculpture,  a nude human form, excessive gore, or that felt it belittled or demeaned their religion) without refund.

See their own personal statement here:

https://3dcoat.com/about-us/our-voice/

I personally would never financially support a company that will actively take their personal beliefs into action with how they treat customers and their own personal works of art.

My thoughts exactly. That's why I refuse to buy their product. I hadn't heard about them revoking licenses. Where did you hear that? I'd love to read more about it.

[kevin.frey]

I was thinking the same at some point. If they needed more money to develop some more features and stuff or needed more money for new hires... I'd be willing to pay more... So the perpetual license for Substance Painter which I use is 149$... That's a good price for what you get. I would probably have been able to pay more. Up to 200...230 maybe..  As long as I would know that this is mine, I can use it whenever I want for as long as I want... As was stated... I'm sure like someone said some people might even donate. Some would even jump through hoops of fire as long as it didn't go to Adobe...  If you said: Help us out here, we need more money to take things to the next level, we have to increase prices a bit, we hope you understand, people would probably be fine with that. People want to support an independent company that creates a very good product for a decent price.

I agree with you. I'd also been able to pay more... even for monthly indie subscription

Yeah, me too! All they needed was be honest with us and tell us they needed more money to stay independent. It was already a pretty good deal, now I am not so sure what the future holds because we have no details at all.

The only way I see this being fair is if the Substance programs have a separate payment plan on the CC and people who have perpetual get to keep the program as it is or continue to get free updates for one or two years.

I agree. I always believed the indie price was lower than it could have been, but perhaps their enterprise solution more than made up for any shortcoming.

I would have been happy to pay more than the $240 I just paid for a year, but I won't give that money to Adobe.

It's my expectation Adobe will bundle Designer and Painter into a single plan. They're too integrated to be rented separately, but Adobe is more profit-minded than this so it's anyone's guess.

[kevin.frey]

I was looking for a replacement over the internet, can somebody recommend me Quixel?

Quixel is not great. It's really just a Photoshop plugin. Slow and very crashy. My hope is they build a standalone app, but they seem content with their Megascans and Mixer apps so I'm not holding my breath.

Someone else mentioned https://armorpaint.org/. I haven't used it so I can't say, but I'm going to give it a go.

Mari is often in the same conversations as Substance, but different and oh so expensive.

We live in dark times now.

[ilonalauraboyer]

I was looking for a replacement over the internet, can somebody recommend me Quixel?

Quixel is not great. It's really just a Photoshop plugin. Slow and very crashy. My hope is they build a standalone app, but they seem content with their Megascans and Mixer apps so I'm not holding my breath.

Someone else mentioned https://armorpaint.org/. I haven't used it so I can't say, but I'm going to give it a go.

Mari is often in the same conversations as Substance, but different and oh so expensive.

We live in dark times now.

Well, thank you. I am a bit desperate now.

[IgnisSerpentus]

The hopeful side of me thinks.... maybe just get the perpetual and wait and see (that's what I am doing)

But if u wanna know painting apps....

Bodypaint (which I own) is a good one
Mudbox
Mari
Modo does some texturing (its not as robust as Mari tho, as thats obviously dedicated)
ZBrush

None of those really compare to substance painter exactly tho, and the way it works.

There are prolly more out there... thats just off the top of my head

If u want something similar to PS... check out affinity photo

[Jay429]

I was looking for a replacement over the internet, can somebody recommend me Quixel?

Quixel is not great. It's really just a Photoshop plugin. Slow and very crashy. My hope is they build a standalone app, but they seem content with their Megascans and Mixer apps so I'm not holding my breath.

Someone else mentioned https://armorpaint.org/. I haven't used it so I can't say, but I'm going to give it a go.

Mari is often in the same conversations as Substance, but different and oh so expensive.

We live in dark times now.

Im hoping Mixer evolves and swallows up quixel,so you can do all your texture painting in Mixer. this is the perfect time for them to announce something like that.
Substance is now dead for me with it being adobe..so hoping the quixel team are cooking something up that means adobe products are not needed.
Big Mistake by allegorithmic! in 3-5 years they will look back and realise what a mistake this was.

[ilonalauraboyer]

The hopeful side of me thinks.... maybe just get the perpetual and wait and see (that's what I am doing)

But if u wanna know painting apps....

Bodypaint (which I own) is a good one
Mudbox
Mari
Modo does some texturing (its not as robust as Mari tho, as thats obviously dedicated)
ZBrush

None of those really compare to substance painter exactly tho, and the way it works.

There are prolly more out there... thats just off the top of my head

If u want something similar to PS... check out affinity photo

I have Affinity.Great package and not rental.
Substance Painter and Designer is my absolute fav apps. Love the workflow there and admire the whole team ( still do) .
I really want to trust their promises but than ,there is Adobe which is not really famous for their keeping promises records.
Yes, I will stick with the perpetual for a while and hope something new, equivalent comes out.

[Michael_12K]

this is Adobe..

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=78yigV0GYGQ&feature=youtu.be&fbclid=IwAR3M_V4C9HyV_-XJJN24hsR_FJialQM2h1uCz64HkE8NYzxu80eGLI2XTfg

[TooManyDemons]

I think we can all relax quite a bit, honestly. Think about this:

The Substance software as it stands is already capable of fantastic texture jobs, even if you didn't update it anymore.

You could probably subsist on your perpetual license for another 10 years and avoid the cloud entirely, until a proper competitor reveals itself.

Even if Adobe publishes flashy new tools, I don't think it would impact your ability to make awesome textures without them, using the current tools.

 

[CAGameDEV]

I think we can all relax quite a bit, honestly. Think about this:

The Substance software as it stands is already capable of fantastic texture jobs, even if you didn't update it anymore.

You could probably subsist on your perpetual license for another 10 years and avoid the cloud entirely, until a proper competitor reveals itself.

Even if Adobe publishes flashy new tools, I don't think it would impact your ability to make awesome textures without them, using the current tools.

 

Yep, I have my workflow down to a science now, and I could get away with using what I have now for a bit.

I'm a big fan of Allegorithmic since the first time I tried their products, and the staff as well as the community have always been great.

We just have to ride this one out and hope for the best. At the end of the day we will always find another way if things go south.

[jafike]

My perpetual yearly maintenance expires in August 2019 (purchased it in August 2018.)  Can I expect the same quality up of updates (maintenance) for the 6-7 months that I paid for?  Or will the "crew" be working on updating there letterheads, resumes, and Adobe stuff like company training and integration into CC?  Should I be afraid of installing an update to Designer or Paint before my yearly maintenance ends?

Like many others, I maintain an Adobe free workflow and will continue that in the future.

[pointoflife]

I personally feel 100% betrayed. There is no power behind any of allegorithmic's "reassurances" for this tragedy, because history has proven exactly what happens from here on. There are zero exceptions, none that I can recall that is...no examples of any softwares in the past "getting better" or "improving" after making this unwise move, all in the name of "it's for you dear customer and the benefit of what you love." All empty words like politics to flatter, smoke and mirrors to continue to misdirect, that's Adobe, always has been. This is truth raw, and I don't care if I'm the only one brave enough to voice it and take all the stones thrown from brainwashed slaves and fanboys. Allegorithmic, this is the absolute WORST move you could make guys no matter how to try to frame it and politician it...a very low blow to your customers, the name of loyalty, and all that is considered to be "integrity." I almost can't believe it, and the fact that I even can is sad. Rant over. 3D Coat get ready here I, and I'm sure many many more like me, come. Good-bye SP, we had a great thing going, you were amazing! 

[Colkaih]

I think we can all relax quite a bit, honestly. Think about this:

The Substance software as it stands is already capable of fantastic texture jobs, even if you didn't update it anymore.

You could probably subsist on your perpetual license for another 10 years and avoid the cloud entirely, until a proper competitor reveals itself.

Even if Adobe publishes flashy new tools, I don't think it would impact your ability to make awesome textures without them, using the current tools.

 

If the perpetual license isn't messed with and "no support" doesn't mean failure to re-issue any activation key should you need to re-intsall, this is pretty much what I have done with other software in the past when I have "voted with my wallet". That said, a couple of software houses stopped issuing activation keys and basically said "upgrade or you're stuffed".

One of the reasons I love Serif software, I've ran their stuff since PP3.0, they switched to the Affinity Suite, but you can still buy their legacy products for only 19.99 each and they work just fine.

As long as SP2018 works, it's up to the task and then some to meet texturing needs.

[Colkaih]

Should I be afraid of installing an update to Designer or Paint before my yearly maintenance ends?

Like many others, I maintain an Adobe free workflow and will continue that in the future.

I see no reason why you should be bothered. I have just installed the latest SP update, could be me, but I'm pretty sure the thumbnail refresh was a lot faster this time, so seems like something has been tweaked for the better.

[rumboldlaci]

Been looking at 3DCoat and Z-Brush. They look interesting but come with a higher pricetag. Especially Z-Brush. Forget about Mari. 2000$?? get outta here.

ZBrush may cost a little more but once you buy its yours for life with upgrades for life. I bought my copy of ZBrush in 2007. Its the same license, more than 10 years of updates, not a penny more was asked of me. But you know what, because they didn't push me to buy or pay for upgrades or do anything underhanded I bought more licenses for my home computer and my work computer, and converted a few coworkers into liking and using ZBrush.

Pixologic is a company that has done everything right in terms of customer focus and customer priority. Other companies should take a good hard look at Pixologic and do what they did. Thats how you become a stable long term and loved company.



3D Coat has a serious problem that should send every artist screaming in the opposite direction. They've terminated and revoke licenses on the personal opinion of the owners that the artists work was obscene (like creating a nude sculpture,  a nude human form, excessive gore, or that felt it belittled or demeaned their religion) without refund.

See their own personal statement here:

https://3dcoat.com/about-us/our-voice/

I personally would never financially support a company that will actively take their personal beliefs into action with how they treat customers and their own personal works of art.

Guys and girls,
I asked Andrew, CEO of Pilgway about this, here is what he says:
"Even if I am Christian, I am for freedom and generally against any censoring and limitations. Many years ago we removed any limitations from using the software. You may tell it to peoples on forums. We will never judge or limit artists. And if something is written in our voice - it is just opinion, nothing more. I am completely for freedom of creativity. We don't judge artists and we expect they will not judge our views."

I think this is fair enough.