Allegorithmic is joining the Adobe family (part 1)

[Fenes Octavian 0]

If they are going to force me to pay 60 euros per month then it is going to be THREE times as much as I pay right now! How is that fair? And do not get me started that I can't turn this licence into a perpetual one. 60 euros forever and because I am still learning, it's going to take a while until I can make a steady income out of this. That's a LOT of money in my country. It's doable but I'm gonna be bled dry!

[Fenes Octavian 0]

Will we be able to access the software outside the CC? I do NOT want to pay 59 dollars a month for a package that includes software I do not want to use!

I don't think so.
This is why I will turn my Licence in a perpetual and look now for a replacement. Sure there is nothing out for now which could replace the Substance tools.But anything is better than go in the CC .
I am sure soon some other smart guys will catch up.It is always like this.

Well yes, that's the obvious solution, turning it perpetual. But who's to say they can't do some legal loopholes that will force us to get a CC subscription?? Such as changing the programs a bit, calling them different and then saying that the perpetual licence only applies to the old software that will no longer be supported! That's how I see it.

[ilonalauraboyer]

[/quote]
Well yes, that's the obvious solution, turning it perpetual. But who's to say they can't do some legal loopholes that will force us to get a CC subscription?? Such as changing the programs a bit, calling them different and then saying that the perpetual licence only applies to the old software that will no longer be supported! That's how I see it.
[/quote]

They can not force you. If my licence get deactivated, I will turn my back entirely to Substance. For me there is no way I subscribe to CC. Gone already through this and will never , ever experience this crap anymore.
So looking for another solutions is a good start .Rethinking the workflow.
Very sad and disappointing but anything is better than than supporting this Adobe void.

What I don't get.When the team had financial problems, why they never ask the community? I am sure many would help.
I would be willing also to pay more for the licence,even donation. Going this way was just wrong.

[Fenes Octavian 0]

For fuck's sake when are we going to get some concrete details already?!!! All I hear is reassurances! Why did you close the deal if you don't know exactly what you and your customers are getting?? Maybe the deal is better than we think it is but there is no reason to piss off your customers by keeping them in the dark!

And why should I trust that everything will be ok? That's exactly what Blizzard told me when they merged with Activision...I know this is not a merger but you get the point! Why should I trust a company that doesn't let me choose what programs I want to buy to act in my best interests???

[ChrisWestland]

I was thinking the same at some point. If they needed more money to develop some more features and stuff or needed more money for new hires... I'd be willing to pay more... So the perpetual license for Substance Painter which I use is 149$... That's a good price for what you get. I would probably have been able to pay more. Up to 200...230 maybe..  As long as I would know that this is mine, I can use it whenever I want for as long as I want... As was stated... I'm sure like someone said some people might even donate. Some would even jump through hoops of fire as long as it didn't go to Adobe...  If you said: Help us out here, we need more money to take things to the next level, we have to increase prices a bit, we hope you understand, people would probably be fine with that. People want to support an independent company that creates a very good product for a decent price.

[Paweł Z 1]

I was thinking the same at some point. If they needed more money to develop some more features and stuff or needed more money for new hires... I'd be willing to pay more... So the perpetual license for Substance Painter which I use is 149$... That's a good price for what you get. I would probably have been able to pay more. Up to 200...230 maybe..  As long as I would know that this is mine, I can use it whenever I want for as long as I want... As was stated... I'm sure like someone said some people might even donate. Some would even jump through hoops of fire as long as it didn't go to Adobe...  If you said: Help us out here, we need more money to take things to the next level, we have to increase prices a bit, we hope you understand, people would probably be fine with that. People want to support an independent company that creates a very good product for a decent price.

I agree with you. I'd also been able to pay more... even for monthly indie subscription

[Fenes Octavian 0]

I was thinking the same at some point. If they needed more money to develop some more features and stuff or needed more money for new hires... I'd be willing to pay more... So the perpetual license for Substance Painter which I use is 149$... That's a good price for what you get. I would probably have been able to pay more. Up to 200...230 maybe..  As long as I would know that this is mine, I can use it whenever I want for as long as I want... As was stated... I'm sure like someone said some people might even donate. Some would even jump through hoops of fire as long as it didn't go to Adobe...  If you said: Help us out here, we need more money to take things to the next level, we have to increase prices a bit, we hope you understand, people would probably be fine with that. People want to support an independent company that creates a very good product for a decent price.

I agree with you. I'd also been able to pay more... even for monthly indie subscription

Yeah, me too! All they needed was be honest with us and tell us they needed more money to stay independent. It was already a pretty good deal, now I am not so sure what the future holds because we have no details at all.

The only way I see this being fair is if the Substance programs have a separate payment plan on the CC and people who have perpetual get to keep the program as it is or continue to get free updates for one or two years.

[Rickmc]

Snitcher

[archaeotect]

Thank you Wes (and others) for your comments and explanations, it's very much appreciated. I will not jump ship for now (I run CC anyway) and hope for the best.

I simply have a hard time imagining Adobe suddenly caring about highly specialized, niche markets like gamedev/VFX/animation. When I look at their products page, it's all graphic/web/product/package design, photography, stock content, advertising, marketing, branding, ease of use etc. Nothing wrong with that, but nothing exciting either.
A 3D & Immersive initiative by a company with that porfolio of apps does not exactly fill me with hope.

But maybe you guys can change all that and make Adobe an exciting company again??? I wish you all the best!

[_Data]

Guys, it's been already discussed before, here's again the recap:

- perpetual license will be gone IN NO TIME, since, as stated by Adobe in their blog, they are already working on incorporating Substance in CC. This is no speculation, it's already happening, we are talking about months. Steam will follow, there is absolutely no reason to think Adobe will behave different just because is Substance (see Mixamo/Fuse). Everything is tied to CC, so forget about anything on Steam.

- forget also about Linux, seriously, don't even ask. It doesn't exist any significant Adobe software CC, that is supported under any Linux distro. They have the money and the resource to do it in years, if it's not happening it's because linux userbase doesn't worth enough money, so they simply don't care. Again there is absolutely no reason for this to be any different just because is Substance.

- what Allegorithmic says from now on means nothing, they do what Adobe says. See the new logo on top right of this page? It says: Allegorithmic - An Adobe Company. This is not a merge or an equal deal, Adobe owns Allegorithmic, the resources, the know-how, the people and everything else.

- forget about your UDIM seamless paint or any significant updates for quite some time: all the resources will be dedicated to incorporate the software in the Adobe CC Suite for a quick transition. And after that, well, everybody knows how update works with Adobe, so don't hold your breath.

- even though we can buy perpetual right now, it's not sure what will happen, they can change the license tos whenever they want in the future.

[87sunny]

Just wanted to chime in as well and help to answer your questions.

Hi Wes, thanks for this thoughtful response. I have a question about the market that the Substance team will be catering towards moving forward.

Allegorithmic, as I've seen it, has always catered towards professionals, whereas Adobe is taking their software in a distinctly different direction — what they call "creativity for all". Their latest investor communications says that "expanding to non-professionals" is a key pillar of their Creative Cloud product strategy. How does the Substance toolset fit into that agenda?



https://www.adobe.com/content/dam/acom/en/investor-relations/pdfs/Adobe-MAX2018-FA-Meeting-Slides.pdf

[rumboldlaci]

Just wanted to chime in as well and help to answer your questions.

Hi Wes, thanks for this thoughtful response. I have a question about the market that the Substance team will be catering towards moving forward.

Allegorithmic, as I've seen it, has always catered towards professionals, whereas Adobe is taking their software in a distinctly different direction — what they call "creativity for all". Their latest investor communications says that "expanding to non-professionals" is a key pillar of their Creative Cloud product strategy. How does the Substance toolset fit into that agenda?



https://www.adobe.com/content/dam/acom/en/investor-relations/pdfs/Adobe-MAX2018-FA-Meeting-Slides.pdf

+1

[graspee]

They aren't going to tell you that even if they know.

[Fenes Octavian 0]

^

That sounds like when a big corporation like EA buys a studio like BioWare, who are (were) renowned for their complex RPGs and they make them pump out watered-down versions of what they used to do so they can cater to casual gamers. With more polish but with less substance (pun intended)

[kevin.frey]

Been looking at 3DCoat and Z-Brush. They look interesting but come with a higher pricetag. Especially Z-Brush. Forget about Mari. 2000$?? get outta here.

ZBrush rules. I've been using it about 3 years now. The great thing is, you buy it once and upgrades are free. Always. So factor that into your decision as well. 3D Coat may be cheaper initially, but you'll pay for upgrades.

ZBrush has a very different way of working and a little difficult to pick up at first, but easy enough to pick up quickly. And the community is huge.