Allegorithmic is joining the Adobe family (part 1)

[o.chabrand89]

Hi Everyone,

Here is the key difference. This was not just an acquisition, where Substance is being absorbed and later discarded as we have sadly seen happen many times in this industry. This was an acquisition to bring the entire Allegorithmic team and Substance toolset on board to lead a new 3D initiative within Adobe. We are in charge of this initiative. And this is a very unique opportunity for us to grow and yet retain everything that we are. That opportunity is extremely rare. It's nonexistent in fact anywhere else. This is the only reason we would agree to this deal with Adobe. We love our team and we love our users. 

I think that was the most optimistic outcome I was hoping for: that Adobe is going to give you guys leadership in their new 3d initiative. It sounds good to me! I'm excited

[juricakrizanic]

Until allegorithmic actually does decouple the licensing server from our perpetuals so that adobe cannot disable our software, I will be convinced that the sale of perpetuals was an organized scam in collaboration with adobe

[Sagem]

Hi Everyone, ...

Here is the key difference. This was not just an acquisition, where Substance is being absorbed and later discarded as we have sadly seen happen many times in this industry. This was an acquisition to bring the entire Allegorithmic team and Substance toolset on board to lead a new 3D initiative within Adobe. We are in charge of this initiative. And this is a very unique opportunity for us to grow and yet retain everything that we are. That opportunity is extremely rare. It's nonexistent in fact anywhere else. This is the only reason we would agree to this deal with Adobe. We love our team and we love our users. 

Thanks for your comments Wes. If things are as you say they are (and remain so going forward) it's a great opportunity for your guys, and I will be excited to see what new ventures you guys come up with. I'll try and be optimistic! I want Allegorithmic to continue as a team and succeed, because you produce awesome software and I do feel you care about your users.  I definitely want Substance Painter to continue to succeed (please please please!!!). I sincerely wish the team all the best for the future, may you go from strength to strength !:)

[LAdair]

WHAT IS GOING TO HAPPEN TO PERPETUAL LICENCES?

If you read the Adobe press release they've made it clear that perpetual licenses will not exist and it will be under the umbrella of CC.

Just like they've done with past perpetual licenses (both their own, and acquired) they will terminate the licensing servers and force you to subscribe. If you take a look into the past as an example when it will occur, probably within the first year, definitely in the second.

I am definitely expecting adobe to attempt invalidating our perpetuals. Any idea if we have any kind of legal ground for a class action lawsuit when it happens?

No need for a lawsuits guys, you keep your perpetual licenses, no doubt about that. You own it.

I know a lot of people are concerned that they'll lose the use of their perpetual licenses, but as the licensee of the CS6 Master Collection that continues to work fine, (and even gets the occasional update to Acrobat 10,) I don't expect Adobe to do something so stupid as to make the software unusable. Too many legal issues with something like that, and big corporation or not, law suits drain profits.

However, many of us are concerned that our right to convert our Indie License subscription to a Perpetual License for $49 after 12 months is going to be taken away. Can you assure us that Adobe will honor what is still currently being advertised on your website? Better yet, can an official representative of Adobe come in here and give us that assurance?

The thing is, while Allegorithmic is located in France, it is now part of a US based company and therefore subject to the laws of the United States and the Federal Trade Commission. The FTC not only frowns on false and/or deceptive advertising, but have the authority to levy very hefty fines on companies that engage in it. Those fines are levied on a per incident basis. It wouldn't take very many complaints by those of us who signed up for the subscription path to a perpetual license but were later denied the option to get the FTC to investigate. As I have a screenshot of the offer, taken yesterday, (and I assume others have taken screenshots as well,) it will be relatively easy to prove the offer was still being advertised even after the Adobe acquisition of Allergoritmic.

So it makes sense to me that Adobe will choose to honor the offer for any who signed up for the Indie License while the offer is advertised on the website. Anything less than that would not be "fair" to Allegrorithmic customers, old and new. Not to mention end with Adobe being scrutinized by the FTC, something else that has the very real potential to drain their profits.

However, I would feel a whole lot better if someone with the authority to do so would come in here and reassure us, specifically, that we will still be able to convert our Indie License subscriptions to a Perpetual License for the advertised $49!

[rumboldlaci]

Thank you, Wes, for the kind words.
I think you guys don't get the point. It's not about you, it's about Adobe.
About their subscription model. Why should I spend money on toy softwares or even professional ones that I don't need?
I paid for Allegorithmic because I got 2 professional products. That's a deal.
Subscribe to CC and get softwares out of my interest - no way.
So, good bye. I wish the best for you.

[psevez]

Thanks for being sincere, Wesley! This is appreciated indeed. Although I'm still very disappointed yet I want to trust you and hope for the best. Good luck in you one-way journey!

[TooManyDemons]

I also despise the subscription model for software.

Cheers and best wishes!

[Nicolas LIATTI]

To all,

We already said this: nothing is happening to your licenses. We are not going to lock them, cancel them or whatever. We never did this and this is not going to happen.
You are not losing your Source points, you can still use our rent to own offer, maintenance, Substance Share and all the other great stuffs of Substance.
We may make changes in the future, as we did several times in the past, and we will do as we always did, by letting you know about it and being fair.

Cheers,

[Jeremie Noguer]

I would feel a whole lot better if someone with the authority to do so would come in here and reassure us, specifically, that we will still be able to convert our Indie License subscriptions to a Perpetual License for the advertised $49!

The answer is yes, and Allegorithmic IS Adobe today, our word has as much power as any other spokesperson from Adobe.

[TooManyDemons]

To all,

We already said this: nothing is happening to your licenses. We are not going to lock them, cancel them or whatever. We never did this and this is not going to happen.
We may make changes in the future, as we did in the past, and we will so as we always did, by letting you know about it and being fair.

Cheers,

The issue is that we will be owning dead-end software. In the next 5-10 years, Substance will be sub-only and anyone with a perpetual license will have sorely out-dated software. We won't be able to update our perpetual licenses.

Artists are arrogant and love to show off their skills. That's when they are happiest. They especially love to own their tools, and their creations. They want to be able to use their toolset in the apocalypse, or on a mountain. Because it's theirs, owned and earned. It's covetous, and petty, and also true for most artists.

This is my garage, these are my tools, and this is my car that I'm building from scratch.

[pheonixflame9]

To all,

We already said this: nothing is happening to your licenses. We are not going to lock them, cancel them or whatever. We never did this and this is not going to happen.
You are not losing your Source points, you can still use our rent to own offer, maintenance, Substance Share and all the other great stuffs of Substance.
We may make changes in the future, as we did several times in the past, and we will do as we always did, by letting you know about it and being fair.

Cheers,

"by letting you know about it and being fair." I take it you mean well in advanced?
Because the last thing we want is an overnight change of heart if Adobe decides it wants to incorporate it in its subscription model and the perpetual lincenses and substance source becomes a problem for them.

It must be frustrating to repeat yourselves, especially when your limited to what you can say as you can't legally speak for the future, but we just want to be secure in the knowledge that we at least get what we paid for and can continue to download and use our software regardless of future changes.

The responses are appreciated. Even if we are frustrated we seem to be going through this adobe nonsense again and again with tools we love.

[LAdair]

I would feel a whole lot better if someone with the authority to do so would come in here and reassure us, specifically, that we will still be able to convert our Indie License subscriptions to a Perpetual License for the advertised $49!

The answer is yes, and Allegorithmic IS Adobe today, our word has as much power as any other spokesperson from Adobe.

Thank you.

[KurtR]

Adobe tried to acquire The Foundery a few years back as well. Might be that Mari becomes the the future texturing tool after all. Sad news though, Substance is really the most innovative software of this decade.

[flcc]

We may make changes in the future, as we did several times in the past, and we will do as we always did, by letting you know about it and being fair.

No doubt you will try to do the best.
But once we can no longer install substance as a standalone software with perpetual license, and without the CC crap, many here will gone.
No matter what wonderful things you can do otherwise.
Best wishes, and thanks anyway for the hard and good work you've done

[SheralonDunn]

Ok we don't hate Allegorithmic, it's a darn amazing software suite. We have been using it since forever and taught it at the College we worked for for 5 years, and were learning partners with Allegorithmic. I know staff are saying the licensing models aren't going to change and we hope that's true, however could someone please explain this. This is what could be causing the outpouring. This is an exert from the link I sent around page 22 of this Forum coming from Adobe themselves mentioning adding it to The Cloud:

The addition of Allegorithmic furthers our expansion of Creative Cloud into 3D content design. A little over a year ago, we introduced Adobe Dimension, which allows creatives to compose and render three-dimensional product mockups, packaging designs, and more. This fall, we previewed Project Aero, a powerful augmented reality authoring tool that takes much of the technical complexity out of creating immersive experiences.

With this acquisition, Creative Cloud will benefit from Allegorithmic tools that are already helping top gaming, entertainment, retail, and other brands create the textures and materials that give 3D content detail and realism. Allegorithmic’s Substance family of tools are used in the vast majority of AAA games, including Call of Duty, Assassin’s Creed, and Forza. They’re increasingly being used for visual effects and animation in entertainment, including in award-winning, popular movies like Blade Runner 2049, Pacific Rim Uprising, and Tomb Raider. And they’re being adopted in the fields of design, product visualization, retail and marketing, architecture, and manufacturing, where 3D content is transforming traditional workflows into fully digital ones.

My husband and I were actually using this when it was MapZone and it has become an integral part of our pipeline and we're in the process of setting up another Studio's pipeline which was going to incorporate this....now we're not sure as they themselves are trying to move away from The Cloud due to costs. Maybe another statement release clarifying Allegorithmic's position on licensing is in order??

Thanks