Author Topic: Allegorithmic is joining the Adobe family (part 1)  (Read 209356 times)

Lots of reasons to be concerned about this, given what's happened with many other companies undergoing similar acquisitions in the past.

Reading through these 17 pages of comments, it's clear there is a lot of anger, especially about the licensing situation. Truth is, we don't know what will happen with that, not yet.

What I want to know is: why should we be excited about this?

I don't mean that in a rhetorical, facetious manner. I literally mean, why should we be excited?

Allegorithmic staff in this thread are basically just trying to pacify and put out fires about licensing. Why don't you expound on why this is a good thing? Let's give them the benefit of the doubt, not just assume that they've been tempted to potentially fuck up their entire creative ecosystem just for the sake of some extra cash for the executives: there might be some really good, creative reasons for this merger. What are they?

In other words, what benefits will all this bring to the Substance suite of tools? Because I feel like that question hasn't really be answered.

I'm quoting this post because it really hits the nail on the head (in a level headed way).

I don't know whats worse, the actual news or amount of sugarcoating, insulting, Bethesda like responses from staff.
Out of all companies you decided to roll with the worst. You had all the money your product can produce, you were private business capable of finding investors on your own, don't weasel out of this, your higher ups received an offer they couldn't refuse and i wonder how much of it you'll get Jeremy for your painfully obvious through the teeth defense of this.
You are getting screwed as well, don't you get it?

@mvijfwinkel Valid question :) and it will be answered in the near future in more precise terms than it was in this general announcement of the acquisition. Until then you just have to take our word for it I guess.

A number of years ago, I was a member of a stock photo club owned and operated by Fotolia. The Dollar Photo Club was a $10 monthly subscription with 10 images a month. Additional images were $1 each. Commercial use was included, though an extended license was available and required for some situations. The neat thing was, the image credits didn't expire, they carried over. I might only use one image in a month, but then in another month need several. I was always covered and with an easy to budget $10.

Then Adobe bought Fotolia.

The club stayed open and the subscription stayed the same. In fact, nothing changed except no one could sign up anymore. Any attempt to sign up sent you to the new Adobe Images site, where all the stock images previously available on Fotolia were now available for $10 per image.

I know you see where this is leading. At some point, (six months, maybe more. I really don't remember,) Adobe closed down the Dollar Photo Club and we were forced to create an account with Adobe Images or lose any unused image credits. Instead of those credits being good until used, they expired one year after our forced migration to Adobe Images.

We were offered a better subscription deal than the general public, if we signed up within a specific time frame, However, the better deal was for a set number of months. After that, our subscriptions would be the same, and we'd pay the same as everyone else.

In the end, I lost something like 78 image credits, (or $78,) because I was unable to use all the stored credits before the end of the year.

I was offended when Adobe went to a subscription only model. The problem I had then, and still have today, is there isn't an exit plan for loyal customers. Fortunately, I have the CS6 Master Collection. Even so, I'd have bought into the subscription model, which at the time would have cost about the same as an annual upgrade, but in 12 smaller monthly payments. But knowing I'd lose access to my own work when I could no longer afford the subscription, (because there are things in CC that are not available in CS6 and which won't work in CS6,) was a deal breaker. I'd have been happy with just getting the then current copy of Photoshop at the end of 5-7 years of subscriptions, but that's not an option.

So I said Goodbye to Adobe products, and continue to use programs from the CS6 era.

Given my first hand experiences with both the Adobe software, (and their don't-give-a-damn Customer Service,) and how Adobe treated the Dollar Photo Club customers after acquiring Fotolia, I am not optimistic about Allegorithmic being acquired by Adobe. To say the least.
Last Edit: January 24, 2019, 09:29:28 am

Really afraid,

We stopped using adobe products for years now, and we don't want to go back.

I love substance and even if i hope you'll be an exception in the adobe "family", i have very little hope to be honest. Time will tell us ... but waking up this morning to suddenly learn in a mail that Allegorithmic is now an adobe company without anything to said about it, sound totally standard  Adobe strategy to me. Maybe i miss some communications on this point ?. This look like a really bad start ...

At this point, we'll immediately start to test alternatives solutions, to be able to step back depending of future changes in substance policies.

Maybe the good point is there is now a place to take for a new challenger in the texturing applications.

Guys, I have one more payment until I can get perpetual. Is it possible to switch to Steam after that? The future looks very uncertain. I wish to keep my beloved software...

Honestly Mari has come a long way. Maybe Foundry will offer a reasonably-priced Mari for Substance artists jumping ship. i kind of doubt it as Foundry has devoted years to trying to set the stage for an IPO by modeling themselves as the next Autodesk / Adobe monster.
Good luck Substance team. Once you led.
Last Edit: January 24, 2019, 09:13:07 pm

Honestly Mari has come a long way. Maybe Foundry will offer a reasonably-priced Mari for Substance artists jumping ship. i kind of doubt it as Foundry has devoted years to trying to set the stage for an IPO by modeling themselves as the next Autodesk / Adobe monster.
Good luck Substance team. Once you led, now you'll be forgotten.

with the difference that Foundry products are top notch.

A big part of the appeal of Allegorithmic was that they are NOT Adobe. It had its own charm and it made me feel good to use and support a small company like that. Made me proud to use their products. This is now gone. Granted, I don't need charm to work with Substance, so for the near future nothing really changes and the software tomorrow is still the same as it was yesterday.

But, as soon as Adobe's influence becomes visible, licensing or programming vise, I will be out. My long term plan was and is to be able to leave Adobe completely, and this is a step back from my goal.

Even though nothing changes for now, I will start looking at alternatives to be ready to leave, which in itself is not what a company wants their customers to do, so something has been broken, even though the software is still the same for now.

This is terrible news.

I'm sure the employees at Allegorithmic feel the same, except for people in upper management who just sold out everyone.

Substance Painter was a large reason why I was able to stop using Adobe products. Glad I have my perpetual license, but I won't be upgrading it anymore, time to start looking for open-source alternatives again.

we can look at it that way too

the world is going to shit, france is going to shit (look at the never ending yellow vest protests in France and Macron the puppet) most likely Sebastien sold Allegorithmic for a lot of zeros to Adobe in order to ensure a good rest of life for him and his family. can you blame him?

Disappointed. This is a cynical viewpoint, but it would be a miracle if something good will come out of this.

Goddamn, I JUST started to finally learn Substance Painter two days ago with the Free Trial too and now hear this...

Guys, is it worth buying a perpetual license right now as I in no way want to have to subscribe to Adobe (Owner of a hard copy CS6 here).
If I purchase a perpetual license for Painter and Designer will it be mine to use always?
Would you recommend this?

Honestly Mari has come a long way. Maybe Foundry will offer a reasonably-priced Mari for Substance artists jumping ship.

There was a "reasonably-priced Mari" it was called Mari Indie.
They let it rot on steam, never talking to customers on steam, denying them customer service through the normal Mari channels and not even mentioning indie on their web page or twitter.
For years they continued to sell perpetual and subs to Mari Indie version 3 on steam despite "main" Mari getting tons of updates (It was on at least 4.2 or something). Mari non-commercial version (free) even got updates when mari indie wasn't, despite people actually paying for indie and despite the fact that mari nc was identical to mari indie as code (not licence). They claimed to be having some trouble with steam and that was why they couldn't update mari indie.

Finally in December 2018 they killed Mari Indie and suggested customers transition to a full Mari subscription and offered customers 80% off a one year subscription. This wasn't as great as it seemed though as they had a limited number of seats available and it was first come first served. Oh and also you can't open mari indie projects in full mari.

So, yeah, don't be holding up Mari as a shining example. They abandoned indie users years ago and now there's only the full mari which is out of the reach of most hobbyists.
Last Edit: January 24, 2019, 10:14:54 am

The level of naivety in this guys it's something I'd expect from a 15yo, it's incredible they run a company for 15 years.

Here's a quick recap for the lazy of what it's sure so far:

- perpetual license will be gone IN NO TIME, since, as stated by Adobe in their blog, they are already working on incorporating Substance in CC. This is no speculation, it's already happening, we are talking about months. Steam will follow, there is absolutely no reason to think Adobe will behave different just because is Substance (see Mixamo/Fuse). Everything is tied to CC, so forget about anything on Steam.

- forget also about Linux, seriously, don't even ask. It doesn't exist any significant Adobe software CC, that is supported under any Linux distro. They have the money and the resource to do it in years, if it's not happening it's because linux userbase doesn't worth enough money, so they simply don't care. Again there is absolutely no reason for this to be any different just because is Substance.

- what Allegorithmic says from now on means nothing, they do what Adobe says. See the new logo on top right of this page? It says: Allegorithmic - An Adobe Company. This is not a merge or an equal deal, Adobe owns Allegorithmic, the resources, the know-how, the people and everything else.

- forget about your UDIM seamless paint or any significant updates for quite some time: all the resources will be dedicated to incorporate the software in the Adobe CC Suite for a quick transition. And after that, well, everybody knows how update works with Adobe, so don't hold your breath.

You're welcome, and good luck