Author Topic: Allegorithmic is joining the Adobe family (part 1)  (Read 74772 times)

The question I want answered is: "Will Adobe honor the ability to purchase the perpetual licenses for people who are now currently under the indie subscription licensing scheme"?

Just look what happened when new investors/new board took control of Unity. They first said "no no, you'll always be able to buy perpetual licenses we guarantee it". One year later, "sorry subscription only".


I signed up for your indie subscription for the sole fact you stated I could buy perpetual licenses when the term was complete .... if Adobe takes that away from us .... it will be quite ugly (its essentially a breach of purchase contract and will probably cause a class-action against Allegorithmic/Adobe).

It's not a breech of contract because the entity you made that contract with, Allegorithmic, was dissolved and Adobe as their purchasee temporarily carried the licensing forward. This is not the first time licenses have been invalidated for software because of buy outs.

Depends on what country you live in when you "signed" the agreement. In Canada we have specific laws that prevent companies from using buyouts and mergers as excuses to not honor the original terms of the agreement. In order for the agreement to be legally altered, both parties must come an agreement to officially amend the original contract. If one side alters it without explicit agreement of both parties, then its a breach. And leaves the option for legal action and heavy fines.

The question I want answered is: "Will Adobe honor the ability to purchase the perpetual licenses for people who are now currently under the indie subscription licensing scheme"?
We will make sure everybody gets a fair transition/exit if needed, yes. Anybody saying otherwise is pulling conjectures out of their rear end :)

This is terrible news. I really thought you guys were pulling off being an excellent  software company aimed solely at making the art of your customers better, faster, and more efficient to produce. You didn't need Adobe, and they don't deserve us. I am incredibly disappointed. I have NEVER been satisfied with Adobe software or their support. You were already industry standard, you already made it. I spent years honing my skills in designer, so obviously I'm not going anywhere, but it still sucks that Adobe will benefit from the hard work you all put in to make substance amazing.

The question I want answered is: "Will Adobe honor the ability to purchase the perpetual licenses for people who are now currently under the indie subscription licensing scheme"?
We will make sure everybody gets a fair transition/exit if needed, yes. Anybody saying otherwise is pulling conjectures out of their rear end :)

Okay, good. I'm sure people don't want the rug pulled from under them and its one of the main concerns.

I truly hope Adobe's management takes a good hard look at the comments people are saying here. They can literally take the advice of customers and see what they can do to truly make the company and their products a million times better if they just listen seriously. The people here aren't asking for the impossible, we just want common sense, and not to be gouged for no reason at all.

The people here aren't asking for the impossible, we just want common sense, and not to be gouged for no reason at all.

And that's our intent and by extensions Adobe's. Our value is in our community, Adobe is very aware of this.

It seems clear that Permanent licenses will vanish after reading through all the conditional assurances from Allegorithic staff. It's certain to happen if Substance gets rolled into CC, otherwise it would literally be the only Adobe CC application you could buy which seems unlikely.

I'm really sad about this. I wish the existing team all the best of luck and I appreciate it must be hard to read through the torrents of negativity in this thread but I think the degree to which many artists really don't like Adobe at all has been misjudged. The moment I can't keep an up to date permanent Substance license is the moment I stop supporting development.

The people here aren't asking for the impossible, we just want common sense, and not to be gouged for no reason at all.

And that's our intent and by extensions Adobe's. Our value is in our community, Adobe is very aware of this.

We know they're aware of it, that's why they handed you this consumer focused PR script you've refused to deviate from all thread long.

There is no "script" but things are still being decided and adjusted, I will only comment on what I'm certain of today.

God damn! This is really heart breaking!!! Everyone is smart enough to see the writing on the wall.. perpetual licenses will be a thing of the past. In its place, the all too familiar Adobe CC rent-to-never-own BS shoved down customers' throats!

Got to hand it Adobe though.. it was a smart move on their part. Why? The substance applications are now becoming heavily adopted by studios everywhere (thus integrated into pipelines as an integral part).. so where does a studio turn to if they become unhappy with the CC business model or become unimpressed with Designer and Painters slowed down, unmotivated progress? There is no serious additional competition here, so there is no incentive to keep pushing the envelop (just look at Photoshop.. over the years, it has not flourished to be the best it can be, as, once again, no serious competition).

I know it must be hard to resist Adobe knocking on your door (as the company founder) and waiving a boat load of cash in your face and offering you a great position within the Adobe empire.. but I have to ask, was Algorithmic not successful enough (and thus making enough money) to not really need being acquired? How much greed is needed before enough is enough?

I really admire companies like Pixologic remaining independent in the face of world increasingly being take over by large corporations. Allegorithmic was also one of the companies I admired, but not now I guess.. It's really hard not to use the term "Sellout".. but this is how I feel.. and while the substance applications won't disappear, we know where it's heading.. and will most likely cost a lot more.

Ultimately, we need a new and serious competitor.. someone who won't sellout.. a substance "Blender" or Substance "Pixologic" type that remains 100% independent... but alas.. something tells me not to hold my breath.. what a crappy day (and for years to come) this is :(

R.I.P Allegorthmic.. You will be sorely missed. To the company founder, For your sake, I hope you're happy.. That way, at least one of us is...

was Algorithmic not successful enough (and thus making enough money) to not really need being acquired? How much greed is needed before enough is enough?

Plenty of factors go into such a decision. It's not only a matter of revenue, we have been profitable for a few years already, but a structure like Adobe brings us plenty of resources that are hard to scale for a small company: human resources, hiring great talents, offices to house these new hires, weight in face of giants like hardware manufacturers, and many other things that would simply be extremely hard to manage by ourselves.

It also provides funding to explore many other areas we couldn't afford to before due to all the aforementioned limitations.

The people here aren't asking for the impossible, we just want common sense, and not to be gouged for no reason at all.

And that's our intent and by extensions Adobe's. Our value is in our community, Adobe is very aware of this.
With all respect, your value is in your technology, which Adobe now owns. They are currently worth around $9 billion and they do not have to nor will they give a moldy fig leaf for the unquantifiable "value" of a user community.

I guess you know more about our deal than we do then  ::)

Man oh man.... I been kicking back here, occasionally refreshing this page to read the wall of hate....

You know, if Allegorithmic were any other company, I would say that boycotting won't last, that people will simmer down and your popularity would soar again.

The problem is that Allegorithmic is a rockstar, like Harley Davidson or Marlboro. It's a name-brand thing, and it's gotten a very positive, unique and enjoyable rapport. That very same rapport may in fact make the blowback from this move actually felt. People may actually be mad enough to force themselves to find a harder way to do things and put down Substance completely, without looking back.

The Hundredth Monkey effect....

Just looking around at the various forums (polycount, reddit, youtube...) I think maybe the damage here will actually be lasting and felt.
3D art is magic.

There is no "script" but things are still being decided and adjusted, I will only comment on what I'm certain of today.

So you're saying you sold out your company and user base without even having a plan decided on? Jesus Christ. Guess Sebastien just could not wait to be Peter Jackson, huh?

Love the side notes we're getting from your own employees on the reddit threads. This one is pretty good



"We fear this too"

Right there, you sold out to Adobe with NO plan at all, without even trying to gain an assurance of fair treatment on behalf of your user base. What a 'fuck you' to your fans.
Last Edit: January 24, 2019, 03:32:15 am

I mean... I can see a substitute for Painter in the near feature... even inside blender.
but designer... oh man... designer was a pink diamond... maybe well have to wait some good 14 years to see something similar and indie friendly.