Author Topic: Allegorithmic is joining the Adobe family (part 1)  (Read 237401 times)

@nmargie This can't be further from the truth though,Adobe has a great track record at integrating companies. Even Photoshop was an acquisition, and the team is still there more than 20 years later.

@Colby Turybury 0 I'll have to disagree here too, Adobe is one of the most innovative software companies. It is regularly the top contributor to SIGGRAPH for example, and the R&D department is enormous.

Adobe has been part of our board for 2 years, we know them and we know their company culture. It is actually very close to ours, despite the size difference.

Listen to you already here, spending your day squawking about how amazing Adobe is. They buy you and you're already acting like their lapdog in under 24 hours.

One of the worst companies on Earth, congratulations on throwing yourself away. Time to learn Mari.

yeah, cuz the foundry is way better than adobe...

Time to learn Mari.

Can't afford $2000 for that. Yikes.

Have you heard about Flash player? How about Acrobat reader ??

Not to mention their monthly subscriptions and intrusive bloatware.

I do not understand how they could think that it would be a good idea to integrate this company.

I understand that this is how things work, but really, I think the community was very fond and grateful for your incredible software. That worked perfectly well, it was very fun to use and with very affordable licensing options. I started using the student license and do not hesitate a minute to acquire the indie license. I feel very sad that it may be the last.

Wes, as a community leader, proven to have a level head on your shoulders, can we please hear your unedited opinion, unadorned with sugary toppings?

 That isn't going to happen. I guarantee you everyone that is public facing at Allegorithmic has had PR training and been given a script of Adobe approved talking points that must be stuck too. Honest opinions are not allowed.

Of course. I've been at other companies in the past that had mergers, and you simply follow the rules provided and go along with the show. If anyone was going to speak outside of the new "mission and values" of the company you would be gone.

As a shareholder for my own companies, the same would apply... If I bought out a smaller company and the employees were not in alignment with the merger and were speaking against the parent company, well then they would be gone... that's just how it goes.

I wouldn't put any employees on the spot from Allegorithmic as they have bills to pay like everyone else. The shareholders are the only ones calling the shots now, regardless. I still love the products Allegorithmic puts out, but I'm not happy with Adobe being in the mix.

Only time will tell what will happen, but the poor track record doesn't give a lot of confidence for any of us using Substance.
I teach people how to use Substance Painter. :)


I understand that

the deal is done and the ink has dried
at some point updates will only come through an Adobe subscription
The current version will no longer allow substance importing into UE4 and Unity

Allegorithmic has been good to the customers and I just ask for 1 thing
    Allow my current version to continue working. Please do not do some BS where the current versions simply stop working or it is impossible to reactivate them after a re install 

Can't afford $2000 for that. Yikes.

That price is looking better in light of the acquisition. If $2k is what I have to pay to maintain control of my work so be it. Software subscription needs to die in a fire.

One of the worst companies on Earth, congratulations on throwing yourself away. Time to learn Mari.

As if The Foundry is such a great company  ;D

Anyway this is sad, have been using Substance for a year now and really enjoyed it. Really hope it won't go downhill with this software. I unfortunately have to work with After Effects a lot, and over the years it have been giving me more and more headaches and really showed how Adobe is treating his tools and customers. More useless features, less stability. It will probably end up being integrated/paired with Adobe Dimension or something, which means it will have no future.

Bonjour à tous,

Désolé d'apprendre qu'un des fleurons de l'économie française passe sous drapeau américain, encore une fois...quelle tristesse. Sachez quelle fierté nous avions ici en France en tant que professionnels de la 3D de savoir que des outils tels les vôtres venaient de Clermont ^^.

A la croisée des chemins, c'est encore une fois l'hédonisme qui remporte la mise.

Quel dommage pour nous, notre économie et notre fierté.

Malgré cette nouvelle, je souhaite aux employés d'Allegorithmic tout plein de bonnes choses.

If it was not about the money you could just have open sourced it and it would definitely flourish. But that road is too scary.

Sad to see the suite go. Glad that I didn't have to much invested in it.

I guess they must really like salaries, what monsters!

You can read Allegorithmic's comments in the thread on polycount, it appears to be fully amount money (when are these deals not about money?):

His certainty that nothing will change astounds me. Right now, their offices are not changing, no-one is leaving. That is right does not mean it won't change in a few months. Adobe is now the boss. Therefore they will make the final call on things, not the Allegorithmic team and it may not be what the Allegorithmic team wants.

Modern history is littered with examples of major changes after takeovers. Oh they may promise right now to support the Allegorithmic team's vision, from software to customer support, to not change a thing...but give it some months, even a year or two and the changes will most likely come. None of the team's positions can be assured. They never are in a takeover. And how many times have you heard of company heads of the company bought out resigning or being 'pushed out' shortly after the takeover?? Why does Seb or any of the team assume this won't happen with Adobe? (Not saying it definately will, but you can't be sure it won't! Past experiences of other companies shows this is generally what happens.)

Time to learn Mari.

Can't afford $2000 for that. Yikes.

And what? We pay for a software not becouse we can not pirate it down in 10 sec, we pay for it becouse we wanna support it's developmant, becouse we TRUST in their development team, becouse we TRUST  in their leadership, becouse WE TRUST IN THEIR DECISIONS.
The relationship between a software company and thie community is the most important factor of their business imo.

I have friends that has huge software parks and they pay the most as donation to Blender : thats how it works.

Just to comment that Adobe haven't had a penny out of me since they went subscription..

I even ditched free Acrobat Reader when the installer deleted itself because I'd had the gall to rename it.. As a business owner I completely understand the decision here; but this is such a great piece of software, but most importantly the team behind the software is the most valuable asset here. Acquisitions historically have huge implications for teams, and when you're talking about the incredible team at Allegorithmic and the culture established there- that now completely changes the DNA of the company like it or not.
That isn't to say Adobe is a "bad" company, that it is not. However, it is a different company, with a different culture and it will definitely show and affect our favorite texturing software as the acquisition matures over time. To think differently is to be unrealistically optimistic, this is the reality of the software industry.

Not to make this post super long, but humor me because I find this part personally and professionally interesting.
The early adopters of Allegorithmic's software (which is the critical group to win over if you apply the Law of Diffusion of Innovations) successfully helped Alleg move to win over the next key group (the early majority); which has been historically the trail of success that has led Substance software to become the industry leader in CG texturing software (the reason why an "old guard" like Adobe decided not to compete and acquire instead).
The whole reason Alleg has been so successful (if you follow economical theories and principles from people like Simon Sinek), is because Alleg has/had a clear mission that resonated with a key group of equally passionate users/customers, the early adopters. As this group (which includes myself and just about every one of my colleagues in the AAA games industry that textures for a living or hobby) backed the software and spread awareness to the other groups on the bell curve, Alleg went from obscure and unknown startup to the industry leader in texturing. A key part of the success is the "authenticity" of Alleg's message in regards to being a disruptor, indie, underdog, and passionate team of devs changing the texturing software industry- something that all early adopters bought into and supported. There are two key things in regards to authenticity; you have to voice the message of authenticity, and then follow with action.
Actions that Alleg took to prove authenticity to early adopters:
- very flexible licensing terms
- relatively cheap price for great software
- great customer support
- innovation/fast and impressive cadence of updates
- value added through a great subscription model
- great communication with their community (early adopters make up the majority of the comms on the forums- this goes for all software; larger groups like early majority, late majority, and laggards won't make the extra effort to register, sign in, and spend time writing forum posts, etc.)

Once an acquisition happens (in any case, not just this one) the list of actions that "prove" authenticity to the early adopters get muddied and the company's message/mission no longer resonates with this group. For proof of this, just look at the majority negative/disapproval feedback on the forums, which is being voiced by a majority of the "early adopters" group. I'm not saying acquisitions are bad and not beneficial in anyway, but like with anything there are pros and cons. Alleg got a strong following and achieved business/market success due to the company developing a culture and identity as an under dog indie startup, disrupting the CG texturing software industry, creating innovation only possible by both having a clear mission statement of identity AND being independent from the usual red tape and conservative principles that tend to govern large industry titans and corporations, like Adobe (again not bad, just a different way of doing business).

There's a deeper topic here but I don't want to delve into it too far as this wall of text is already pretty high. I just find this part of the business world to be really fascinating and I wanted to break down what this acquisition means and why people (including myself) are reacting the way we are. I think the most passionate of the early adopter group feel somehow "betrayed" because they feel that Alleg has done a 180 of their original mission statement/identity overnight; and people will oversimplify the reasoning to something easily digestible, like the idea that the move was solely motivated by money- which it never is as simple as that.

As an early adopter and happy customer and enthusiast (I'm one of those devs, like many I'm sure, that gathers people around the water cooler at the studio telling people "have you used Substance yet? It's so awesome!") I will continue using Substance products while it continues to "wow" me. But like many others, if there's another group that comes up with a stellar product that is driven by the culture and identity that Allegorithmic originally won me over with years ago, they may end up acquiring my business and loyalty; and so the world continues turning.

Congrats to Allegorithmic and looking forward to a positive and great 2019!