Author Topic: Allegorithmic is joining the Adobe family (part 1)  (Read 105676 times)

Ok we don't hate Allegorithmic, it's a darn amazing software suite. We have been using it since forever and taught it at the College we worked for for 5 years, and were learning partners with Allegorithmic. I know staff are saying the licensing models aren't going to change and we hope that's true, however could someone please explain this. This is what could be causing the outpouring. This is an exert from the link I sent around page 22 of this Forum coming from Adobe themselves mentioning adding it to The Cloud:

The addition of Allegorithmic furthers our expansion of Creative Cloud into 3D content design. A little over a year ago, we introduced Adobe Dimension, which allows creatives to compose and render three-dimensional product mockups, packaging designs, and more. This fall, we previewed Project Aero, a powerful augmented reality authoring tool that takes much of the technical complexity out of creating immersive experiences.

With this acquisition, Creative Cloud will benefit from Allegorithmic tools that are already helping top gaming, entertainment, retail, and other brands create the textures and materials that give 3D content detail and realism. Allegorithmic’s Substance family of tools are used in the vast majority of AAA games, including Call of Duty, Assassin’s Creed, and Forza. They’re increasingly being used for visual effects and animation in entertainment, including in award-winning, popular movies like Blade Runner 2049, Pacific Rim Uprising, and Tomb Raider. And they’re being adopted in the fields of design, product visualization, retail and marketing, architecture, and manufacturing, where 3D content is transforming traditional workflows into fully digital ones.


My husband and I were actually using this when it was MapZone and it has become an integral part of our pipeline and we're in the process of setting up another Studio's pipeline which was going to incorporate this....now we're not sure as they themselves are trying to move away from The Cloud due to costs. Maybe another statement release clarifying Allegorithmic's position on licensing is in order??

Thanks


Hi Everyone,

Just wanted to chime in as well and help to answer your questions. Please forgive me if I am stating anything that has already been said. Let me begin by saying I completely understand if you are disappointed, upset or just angry. It's totally OK to feel angry and express that to us. I want you to know that we are hearing your feedback. We always listen and take seriously feedback whether it is good or bad. Feedback from users is vital to us and that will never change. I want to speak to you all as well as you are an awesome community and I don't want anyone here to feel betrayed or worried. I've gotten to know many people in this community over the years and you are all very dear to me.   

Please allow me to provide some context into why this is happening. I understand if you don't want to hear this. I know that what I am saying at this time will come off as cheap talk or PR speak. That is totally understandable and to be honest, I would probably feel the same.

First, let me say that we did not sell out to Adobe. In order for us to operate as a company, we needed to have investors and Adobe has been an investor in Allegorithmic for a few years now. I tell you this to illustrate the point that this was not a snap decision.

Allegorithmic has been successful, but to fully realize our vision to build new innovative tools, we needed to grow. We choose to join Adobe because it presented us with a unique opportunity to lead Adobe’s 3D initiatives, and to help take them to the next level.  To accomplish this, Adobe is building an expanded team to focus on opportunities in 3D and immersive design. Allegorithmic is this team and our CEO, Sébastien Deguy, is now Vice President, 3D & Immersive.

Here is the key difference. This was not just an acquisition, where Substance is being absorbed and later discarded as we have sadly seen happen many times in this industry. This was an acquisition to bring the entire Allegorithmic team and Substance toolset on board to lead a new 3D initiative within Adobe. We are in charge of this initiative. And this is a very unique opportunity for us to grow and yet retain everything that we are. That opportunity is extremely rare. It's nonexistent in fact anywhere else. This is the only reason we would agree to this deal with Adobe. We love our team and we love our users. 

As I said above, I don't expect this to make you feel any better. I mean, of course I would say this stuff, I work here right? I'm not asking anyone to believe me or take my word for it. All I ask is for you to just watch what we do. Our actions are what will speak. We have a lot to prove now and the Substance team is up for the challenge to prove it.

You had faith in us before. I am just asking you to please try and have faith in us now. I know that is a lot to ask today. Watch what we do and judge us by our actions and not solely by this announcement. Answers are coming. 

All I can do today is just be real with you. And so with all that said, what do I really think?

Well, yeah, sure I'm scared. This is a huge change and new chapter for all of us. It's human to be scared of change. I don't have all the answers and I don't know what tomorrow brings. But here is what I know...

I work with the smartest and greatest team in this world. They are not just my co-workers. They are my friends and my family. I love everyone at Allegorithmic dearly. I have known Sébastien for a long time and he has always put the team first over himself. Every single time. He is passionate about what he has created and he loves this community.

I believe in Sébastien and I trust him 100%. As I said, I don't have all the answers today and I don't know all the changes that are coming, but I know that I am with my Substance family. We are still together and we will go through this new adventure the same way we do everything: together as a team.

With Love,

Wes


You know...  I trust you guys. I don´t trust adobe, but I trust you and I respect everything you´ve done. I´m renewing my sub, and in the future, we will see. I can´t wait to see the new alchemist and the option to paint through texture sets in painter.

You know...  I trust you guys. I don´t trust adobe, but I trust you and I respect everything you´ve done.

This part is important to get across. Certainly had no problems with any of you guys and have always felt like this company cared for its userbase. Every problem, whatever out situation, you tried to help us.

The respect for your team and company is the very reason we feel we have everything to lose from this deal.

Wes,

Many of us are already under massive financial constraints. And while you may become part of Adobe, many of us Can NOT afford the type of licensing that Adobe DEMANDS.

I know the general response is " we'll get back to you all when we have a deal finalised" , but this is adobe, and they have a repeated pattern of behavior and price gouging.

Really disappointed in this news. But I guess you guys already made the deals and there's no turning back. We can only hope we don't all get screwed over in the end now...

Really disappointed here too, I don't trust Adobe, but, in case something went wrong, legally, if someone pays for a full version and full price software (indie perpetual license in my case), no one can tell you after paying it, you can not use it anymore, of course they can do as they did in the past, you paid until "that" version and you can keep and use that version forever, but no one can deactivate your software you already paid the full price. If someone would want to do that, legally you must get the money back or get a "version locked" that could not be updated and use it forever.

Yes, I know Allegorithmic guys said to us that we don't have to fear anything, and I try, but when I think about Adobe...

Your community brought me here. The same community that praised your software and spread the word for you. So, thanks to the community. Now, that same community is being heard everywhere and spreading the word of how you basically stab them in the back with an Adobe knife. I been with Adobe before, the key word is before. Fortunately, I have found new softwares that gets my work done without Adobe’s subscription nightmare. I’m sure it didn’t hurt them one bit. I’m just a single grain of sand to them. They gave no choice it’s their way (Subscription) or their way (We own the market)

So, to the community, thank you for letting me know this before I bought Substance. As an indie dev trying to make a living I solely understand why you accepted the offer from a billion-dollar company. You guys started out small and now look where you are. I really mean it when I say Congratulations! Unfortunately, you work for a billion-dollar company that now you must keep happy. The key take away here your first priority is pleasing Adobe…………………………………………………………………………………… …………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………… than maybe your community.

The community should understand that no matter what you say and how angry you get at the end of the day what’s done is done. Even if you quit the software its not going to matter. As Jerc has said “Allegorithmic IS Adobe” now, Adobe will still make money no matter how many customers they upset.

Just see for yourselves:

Adobe Reports Record Revenue
Thursday, September 13, 2018 4:05 pm EDT

Digital Experience Subscription Revenue Grows 25 Percent Year-Over-Year in Q3
SAN JOSE, Calif.--(BUSINESS WIRE)--Adobe (Nasdaq:ADBE) today reported strong financial results for its third quarter fiscal year 2018 ended August 31, 2018.

Financial Highlights
Adobe achieved record quarterly revenue of $2.29 billion in its third quarter of fiscal year 2018, which represents 24 percent year-over-year revenue growth.


You are now just a grain of sand to Allegorithmic (I mean Adobe). Their software has become industry standard. That means big gaming companies will still be using Substance. Even Jerc or somebody in their staff (too many pages to look through) said the gaming companies are happy with the takeover/acquisition. What is sad is the small little guys will be impacted the most and they can’t do a thing about it. Except look for alternatives.

Oh, if your wondering how Perpetual license will be in the future maybe this will give you a hint.

From Buisnesswire:

“Allegorithmic and Adobe share the same passion for bringing inspiring technologies to creators,” said Sebastien Deguy, CEO and founder, Allegorithmic. “We are excited to join the team, bring together the strength of Allegorithmic’s industry-leading tools with the Creative Cloud platform and transform the way businesses create powerful, interactive content and experiences.”

Adobe’s strong track record of successfully integrating acquisitions will help further accelerate Allegorithmic’s product roadmap and go-to-market and extend its reach among enterprise, SMB and individual customers. Allegorithmic CEO and founder, Sebastien Deguy will take a leadership role in Adobe’s broader 3D and immersive design efforts as vice president, 3D and Immersive, reporting into Scott Belsky.

Allegorithmic tools are already offered as a subscription service to individuals and enterprise customers, and in the future Adobe will focus on expanding the availability of Allegorithmic tools via subscription. Later this year, Adobe will announce an update on new offerings that will bring the full power of Allegorithmic technology and Adobe Creative Cloud together.

CC and Perpetual does not mix. So even if they figure out a way to do it you still will need to download CC and its bloatware of .EXE and slowly and surely, they will get you on the Subscription train and if you want off you must pay a fee. They won’t give you a choice.

When you start out small your first priority is your community. They pay the bills; the more people you make happy the more customers you will get because the community will spread the word for you (that’s how I got here). Now that your Adobe, your first Priority is Adobe. The fact is the reason you won’t say what’s going to happen about your future plans (even if you wanted to) is Adobe is in control and you have no say in the matter. You are just a worker bee now.

So, when the dust settles you’ll announce Substance is part of CC and updates are only available through CC. So, for you Perpetual license users you will need to install CC.

You said it yourself you guys knew that people will not be happy. You can care less how many of your loyal users you upset. At the end of the day, you will still get a fat paycheck no matter what, FOR NOW.

To the Community:

Hope for the best plan for the worst. 
Last Edit: January 25, 2019, 02:40:44 am

In Addition to my previous statement. How much time do we have left to convert our licenses into perpetual license?

If Allegorithmic is now Adobe, how much power do you, the team who built the company, software, and community,  have over the licensing of your product?

Will the leverage of being Adobe and not Allegorithmic allow you to REDUCE the price of the product?

If any deals are not met with good faith does Allegorithmic retain the right to remove itself and its original products from Adobe, since this is not a buyout.

Will Adobe as owner of Allegorithmic attempt to patent any and all ways of using software to paint or control multiple channels of texture and noise information for the production and export of materials and data for PBR And or other pipelines ?

Sebastien might become the VP for the new "3D and immersive design" department, but the president will be Scott Belsky, a former Goldman Sachs employee, and VP for Creative Cloud  :-X

We all know what Sebastien thinks, but what is Scott's view on perpetual licenses??

Sebastien might become the VP for the new "3D and immersive design" department, but the president will be Scott Belsky, a former Goldman Sachs employee, and VP for Creative Cloud  :-X

We all know what Sebastien thinks, but what is Scott's view on perpetual licenses??

his opinion won't matter after the deal is done... at all.

I won't go into the disappointment I feel with this merger, 42 pages of comments have summed it all up pretty nicely. I just hope that you stand against the trend of Adobe, Autodesk and Foundry buying software and gutting it for tech or eliminating it from the market.

What I would like to confirm is when will the merger take effect in a practical sense ie. when should I convert my subscription to a perpetual licence? The evasiveness of answers to questions surrounding the continuation of perpetual licences doesn't fill me with hope that it will continue.. At the very least can you please give us a heads up so that those who do not want to keep going with subscription based licensing can have the choice?