Author Topic: Q: How do i get better/ sharper/ finer texture quality  (Read 15449 times)

Hey there,

I probably do something wrong, but i was wondering if anybody else have such unsharp pixelated effects in SD & SP. Some effect do not even show up on the model.
It looks like one pixel is more then 1 centimeter in real life.

So at first i did download the hot-rod and exported the Cymourai models for size comparison. They are both pretty different where the hot-rod is much bigger then the Cymourai.
Sizing my model down to the hot-rod size did matter for the quality in SD (so i think) but in SP it looked like sizes did not matter.
I also did use the transform2D node in both apps but i can't belief that i need such a node with every effect i use.

Edit: I did Try out the effects with the Cymourai in SP but the results are the same.
So what is it i'm doing wrong,  how do i get better/ sharper/ finer texture quality:

thanks
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Muezli.com with yoghurt and lots of fresh fruits.

Hello,

The issue you are describing looks more like an issue with UV layout and texel resolution. The default model in SP contains the UVs for the entire mesh in a single texture set. Since the UV shells are rather small in the texture set, they are only getting a small portion of the pixels from the 2K image. This results in a low quality map. To increase resolution, you can change to 4K, which SP will support soon. However, the best option is to make sure the UVs layout gives adequate texel resolution to maximize the resolution of the texture. A better UV layout with UVs filling large portions of the 0-1 space will give better results at 2K than a 4K image with poor UV layout.

Cheers,

Wes
Head of Substance Demo Art Team
the3dninja@adobe.com
Twitter: The3DNinja

So what you are saying is that my texture density is to small. In other words. If I divide my 2k texture over a 2 2k it will be better. Logical.

Thanks for that. I will try it out.
Still I have some effects that do not work./ still have a black mask. Paint wear for instance. 

Anyway thanks for all the hard work.  I am trying to persuade my school to teach this in class.
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Muezli.com with yoghurt and lots of fresh fruits.

So what you are saying is that my texture density is to small. In other words. If I divide my 2k texture over a 2 2k it will be better. Logical.

Thanks for that. I will try it out.
Still I have some effects that do not work./ still have a black mask. Paint wear for instance. 

Anyway thanks for all the hard work.  I am trying to persuade my school to teach this in class.

Hi,

All of the masks should be working. For the paint wear, you need to drop the variation amount and increase the levels before it will show on the default mesh.

Cheers,

Wes
Head of Substance Demo Art Team
the3dninja@adobe.com
Twitter: The3DNinja

Ok Wes i've been at it. Trying different models and UV settings. but its still abracadabra, i can't seem to find the perfect texel resolution size.  I mean all sample models work but i can't take them in to Maya to compare them with my own. i could with the Helmet model from Michael Pavlovich (witch worked perfect in SP btw) but still my models suck at it. Suddenly Unwrapping takes the longest time in my pipeline.
Is there any script or something to aid on this matter.
Or could you give some more pointers on that. I feel pretty lost here :-[  :'(
Thanks
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Muezli.com with yoghurt and lots of fresh fruits.

Suddenly Unwrapping takes the longest time in my pipeline.
Is there any script or something to aid on this matter.
Or could you give some more pointers on that. I feel pretty lost here :-[  :'(
Thanks

Have you used the Unfold 3D in Maya it can really speed up the UVing process when done correctly.

Hmmm, I would suggest 3D-Coat - it does a great job on "Auto-retopo" plus got really good tools to do retopo/ adjust the auto-retopo by hands. (This gives a good base to do good UV-Unwraps) And from there, it´s just a few more clicks to unwrap and adjust/place the UV´s.

"Roadkill" stand-alone or Maya-plugin works also great.

Modo 801 also got good UV-Tools, and the Modo-guys have a good video, on how to unwrap things and maximize UV-Space (you can use this "UV-Unwrap-how-to" in other apps, too)

Watch: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6nHtOKNLgGs


Cheers!
Last Edit: November 03, 2014, 10:19:29 am

Ok Wes i've been at it. Trying different models and UV settings. but its still abracadabra, i can't seem to find the perfect texel resolution size.  I mean all sample models work but i can't take them in to Maya to compare them with my own. i could with the Helmet model from Michael Pavlovich (witch worked perfect in SP btw) but still my models suck at it. Suddenly Unwrapping takes the longest time in my pipeline.
Is there any script or something to aid on this matter.
Or could you give some more pointers on that. I feel pretty lost here :-[  :'(
Thanks

Hi Ron,

Yes, UVs can definitely be a pain. What 3D app are you using? @Elowan and @johnny9ball mention some good solutions. I use Maya and Unfold 3D is the best unwrap algorithm I've seen.

Cheers,

Wes
Head of Substance Demo Art Team
the3dninja@adobe.com
Twitter: The3DNinja

Sorry guys  for not expressing my self that well.
( i shouldn't post @ 4 in the morning)
I really do know how to unwrap models, really ;) ;D

--The main problem is my texel density --

So i did some test, and because pictures speak more then words (specially mine). Here you go.
 
[Picture-1]

Just some tubes with different Texel densities + some of the script i started using for this test(Deo'S uv & UV Deluxe)

[Picture-2]

These are the tubes in Sp with all the maps except the height-map and basic effects applied

I found that the second tube reacted the most to the effects (still minimal but...), also the resolution would look poor most of the time. And with the MG Paint wear and MG Edge Speckle i didn't get any result.

Conclusion: this tube is part of a gun. To get all the uv islands to fit i would need 2 texture-maps on this gun. it just seems to be wrong this way. and time consuming. I never had to do that before.
Also when i put this Gun thru Photoshop or DDo, a Density of 512 seems to be enough.

So yeah. :-\

I hope this clears it up a bit.

@  johnny9ball:  yep i do, also when it was just a plug-in for Maya.

@Elowan,  Also yep i tried to use 3dcoat since it was a plugin for Photoshop. but i never really use it. just the UV and retopo tools. But since Autodesk implemented the Nex tools in to Maya I rarely do. I am from the old school, trying  to do as much as i can in one app. 8)  Modo on the other hand is something i need to get updated with again. they are showing some beautiful stuff lately.
   
So again. thanks for the help guys and  i really appreciate the fast response.

Ron
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Muezli.com with yoghurt and lots of fresh fruits.

Shoot i didn't see your reply Wes.  I really should use the refresh button before i post. :-[
Anyway i use Maya but i really do not have any problems unwrapping stuff.
My problem is the quality i do get from using effects in SP.
Could i send you this tube, so you could have a go/look at it. that would be cool.

Xtra compare picture

Thanks in advance
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Muezli.com with yoghurt and lots of fresh fruits.

Shoot i didn't see your reply Wes.  I really should use the refresh button before i post. :-[
Anyway i use Maya but i really do not have any problems unwrapping stuff.
My problem is the quality i do get from using effects in SP.
Could i send you this tube, so you could have a go/look at it. that would be cool.

Xtra compare picture

Thanks in advance

Hi Ron,

I checked the sample files. I posted a screen shot of what I am getting. I took the normal map into Substance Designer and created a new curvature map. The curvature map looked like it was a bit flat. Did you bake that in SD?

It terms of quality, it looks like your best option is the 2nd and 3rd tube. The screen shot shows tubes 1-3. In texel density, the last tube is the best, but it takes up too much space in UV if you want to add other UVs for parts of the gun. The larger polygon areas will need the greater texel density. The quality in this case really comes down to the texel density of the UV layout. You will need to weigh the density of this barrel with the rest of the gun. It could be that to get the best resolution, you need an additional material, but as you mentioned, that would create an additional map which you may not want for overall performance.

The substance effect is not doing anything to produce a lower effect. If you were to add the same grunge map in photoshop to these UVs, you would have the same issue.

Another option could be to further split up the shell so that you have the same texel density, but in smaller chunks. This of course would increase vertex count through seams, but that could be cheaper than an extra texture.

Cheers,

Wes

Head of Substance Demo Art Team
the3dninja@adobe.com
Twitter: The3DNinja

Wow Wes,

That was fast.(and some people are still complaining ;) ) Thank you so much.

Quote
-Did you bake that in SD?
  Yep i did, To be honest i just did a batch with the default settings because it was a test. I normally bake them in Ndo its the best for me at the moment.  And now that i think of it there was maybe nothing to read from i guess. doh!

With last tube you mean the 4th tube or number 3. Anyway i already kinda went with number 2.

[Picture-1]

As you can see it barely fits in 2 texture/Uv spaces. Ok i still have to clean a lot like double parts, cutting uv shels and stuff, but still.

-With hard surface models i tend to keep the texture ratio the same on all pieces. this because of lets say i want to add a overall dust layer on top, you won't need to adjust/scale this layer for every piece. (Hope that sounded logical)

Here you can see some examples i did before in Photoshop, both are 1x 2048 and i think they are sharp enough

[Picture 2 & 3]

Anyway this helped me a lot, I can go on now.

Thanks Wes and the whole Allegorithmic team you guys rock.
Last Edit: November 03, 2014, 08:02:42 pm
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Muezli.com with yoghurt and lots of fresh fruits.