Author Topic: A few questions about Substance Painter...  (Read 15041 times)

A few questions I couldn't figure out on my own from using the software or from tutorials on the web/youtube.

1) When I add a substance to a layer mask such as Metal Edge Wear mask, I can paint in more edge wear but I can't paint out the edge wear (as in I can't paint black) Nothing works, putting my paint brush to black or using the eraser I can't paint out the mask. The work flow I need to use is make a folder with a mask and throw it in there, but that way I need to work with 2 Masks, whats up with this?

2) How do you translate information from one layer's channel to another channel, for example You've been painting with Diffuse, after 10mins you realised you forgot to turn on roughness, you should be able to copy and paste diffuse channel to roughness channel and then tweak roughness with levels. How do I do this? This is basic stuff, You can copy Content from one layer to another layer but you can't seem to copy from one Layer's channel to another layer's channel (Diffuse, Roughness, Metallic, etc). One workflow to avoid this problem is using fill layers with mask instead, but still...

3) Painter in general is very sluggish, Once I add around 25 layers of basic stuff a couple of levels and couple of subtance effect on 2048x2048 texture, with a 6500 tri model in viewport on PBR mode: Medium quality things start to get slow, the computing update and few seconds of freeze becomes too frequent. I'm on a Intel i5-2500k oc 4.3ghz , GTX 770, M4 Crucial SSD, Windows 7, other software and games work fine, Substance Designer is also better in this sense. So is this the best performance painter will give or is it something that could be improved in the future? Also what can I do now to improve it, I'm thinking now after reaching 25 layers I should just export my textures and reimport them as a new project, that will improve performance but will lose control over all previous layers.

4) Painter saving is frustratingly slow, if you're someone like me that gets frustrated from even losing 10mins of work from a software crash your Crtl+S spam would be frequent, most software is fine with this type of spamming, even Designer, but painter is not. Not sure what it's calculating in the background but saving in painter pretty much locks me out for 5-10seconds, after pressing crtl-s i expect to carry on painting but instead I'm left nodding my head looking around the room, thinking about putting the kettle on whilst painters annoying red icon on the bottom right disappears, Is this something that can be improved? Because trying to break out of my habbit of quick saving that works fine for most applications or games is going to be hard, which is otherwise a positive habit.

I had a few other questions which I have forgotten now, will update the thread later when I remember them.

Thanks in advance for any answers.

A few questions I couldn't figure out on my own from using the software or from tutorials on the web/youtube.

1) When I add a substance to a layer mask such as Metal Edge Wear mask, I can paint in more edge wear but I can't paint out the edge wear (as in I can't paint black) Nothing works, putting my paint brush to black or using the eraser I can't paint out the mask. The work flow I need to use is make a folder with a mask and throw it in there, but that way I need to work with 2 Masks, whats up with this?

2) How do you translate information from one layer's channel to another channel, for example You've been painting with Diffuse, after 10mins you realised you forgot to turn on roughness, you should be able to copy and paste diffuse channel to roughness channel and then tweak roughness with levels. How do I do this? This is basic stuff, You can copy Content from one layer to another layer but you can't seem to copy from one Layer's channel to another layer's channel (Diffuse, Roughness, Metallic, etc). One workflow to avoid this problem is using fill layers with mask instead, but still...

3) Painter in general is very sluggish, Once I add around 25 layers of basic stuff a couple of levels and couple of subtance effect on 2048x2048 texture, with a 6500 tri model in viewport on PBR mode: Medium quality things start to get slow, the computing update and few seconds of freeze becomes too frequent. I'm on a Intel i5-2500k oc 4.3ghz , GTX 770, M4 Crucial SSD, Windows 7, other software and games work fine, Substance Designer is also better in this sense. So is this the best performance painter will give or is it something that could be improved in the future? Also what can I do now to improve it, I'm thinking now after reaching 25 layers I should just export my textures and reimport them as a new project, that will improve performance but will lose control over all previous layers.

4) Painter saving is frustratingly slow, if you're someone like me that gets frustrated from even losing 10mins of work from a software crash your Crtl+S spam would be frequent, most software is fine with this type of spamming, even Designer, but painter is not. Not sure what it's calculating in the background but saving in painter pretty much locks me out for 5-10seconds, after pressing crtl-s i expect to carry on painting but instead I'm left nodding my head looking around the room, thinking about putting the kettle on whilst painters annoying red icon on the bottom right disappears, Is this something that can be improved? Because trying to break out of my habbit of quick saving that works fine for most applications or games is going to be hard, which is otherwise a positive habit.

I had a few other questions which I have forgotten now, will update the thread later when I remember them.

Thanks in advance for any answers.

1. You can paint on the mask, but you are not able to remove values using black due to the way masks values are added. However, a workaround is to place the layer with the substance effect into a Layer Group. You can then add a layer mask to the Layer group. So, if you add a substance effect of metal edge wear to a layer, you can add to it with white. Then, you can take away from the mask by painting in the layer group's mask with black.

2. You can just enable the rough channel and starting painting on the same layer. Each layer contains the stack of channels. If you enable a channel, you can then paint on it. However, we don't have a method of copying one channel's data to another. In the case of roughness, you wouldn't want to simply copy the diffuse and paste that into the roughness. You could do a levels on the diffuse to get a rough, but the attributes of these maps are different. In a PBR metal/rough workflow, the values you are painting for diffuse are much different than what is needed for roughness. But, with that said, we are working on improving the copy/paste value for future releases.

3. We are working a lot on Painter's performance. In the last few beta builds, the engine has been going through a rewrite for 4K support. The slow down is coming from this new optimizations. When the 4K engine is ready, the performance will improve dramatically.

4. The saving is also going to improve with the new optimized engine. This is not an indication of how performance will be in Painter. Right now, there is a major rework to the core engine for 4K and this processed has caused some perf drops while its being switched over to 4K. This will all improve for 1.0 release.

Cheers,

Wes   
Head of Substance Demo Art Team
the3dninja@adobe.com
Twitter: The3DNinja

Will Painter become close to that of PhotoShop?

Just wondering, because I would use Gimp/Photoshop to make eye textures by the use of filters and other tools, never painted them.

I guess I could use the Substance that was made, but I'm not too fond of the one that you can buy, nor can I really use it because the model I use has it's own eye controls (can control pupil, iris size, and the sort)

Will Painter become close to that of PhotoShop?

Just wondering, because I would use Gimp/Photoshop to make eye textures by the use of filters and other tools, never painted them.

I guess I could use the Substance that was made, but I'm not too fond of the one that you can buy, nor can I really use it because the model I use has it's own eye controls (can control pupil, iris size, and the sort)

We are moving towards a complete photoshop replacement. Honestly, we are not there yet. We still have features to implement for a complete replacement. However, in terms of texturing, I think we are pretty much there. I don't use photoshop for texturing anymore. I mainly use it for text and image clean up/photo editing.

Cheers,

Wes
Head of Substance Demo Art Team
the3dninja@adobe.com
Twitter: The3DNinja

For performance, I've found that disabling the hyperthreading cores for Painter improves performance dramatically.

For performance, I've found that disabling the hyperthreading cores for Painter improves performance dramatically.

Hello,

Can you please give some information about your hardware? We would like to see in which circumstances (painting/loading, particles/stroke) you have noticed a speed up in performance.

Cheers,

Wes
Head of Substance Demo Art Team
the3dninja@adobe.com
Twitter: The3DNinja

Sure. I have a Core i7 2600k @ 3.4Ghz, 8GB RAM, Nvidia 780GTX 3GB, Windows 7 x64. Do you need a DxDiag report?

I just turned off every other core for painter in task manager by setting the core affinity for the process. That way only the real cores are used.

It mostly speeds up the actual painting with brushes and particles. With the HT cores turned on, it's kind of jerky and laggy at the beginning of a stroke, but then comes around after half a second or so. With the HT cores turned off it's fluid and consistent throughout, making painting much more pleasant to use.

2) How do you translate information from one layer's channel to another channel, for example You've been painting with Diffuse, after 10mins you realised you forgot to turn on roughness, you should be able to copy and paste diffuse channel to roughness channel and then tweak roughness with levels. How do I do this? This is basic stuff, You can copy Content from one layer to another layer but you can't seem to copy from one Layer's channel to another layer's channel (Diffuse, Roughness, Metallic, etc). One workflow to avoid this problem is using fill layers with mask instead, but still...

It this possible yet? I want to copy a channel to another channel or to a mask. "Copy content" doesn't work in this case.
If you forget to add a channel while painting, you don't want to start over again. A height channel, fo instance, can be used and tweaked for a glossiness channel or a mask.

Thanks,
Chris

Hey the.ays,

using fill layers is often a very good solution.


Best Regards
Environment Artist - Twitter

Hey the.ays,

using fill layers is often a very good solution.


Best Regards

This doesn't help when the layer is already painted and you realized too the channel was off. Nor if you are working with more than one color on a layer.  Seriously, you guys have no way as off yet in version 2.4.1 to move channel data from one to another?  I painted the base separately and wanted to use its base to start on the other channels... and I can't??  That makes no sense, especially when some of your own materials allow channel mapping.
Last Edit: December 10, 2016, 06:15:45 am

Hey the.ays,

using fill layers is often a very good solution.


Best Regards

This doesn't help when the layer is already painted and you realized too the channel was off. Nor if you are working with more than one color on a layer.  Seriously, you guys have no way as off yet in version 2.4.1 to move channel data from one to another?  I painted the base separately and wanted to use its base to start on the other channels... and I can't??  That makes no sense, especially when some of your own materials allow channel mapping.

I feel your pain, after 3 years copying black and white images from one channel to another is not possible yet, I just hope we won't have to wait for version 3...

Hi Guys,

Sorry to dredge this one up from the depths of 2014 but I find myself in the same situation regarding point 2. Is there any work around for copying the contect from the base color to the emissive channel, roughness channel etc? I cannot wrap my head around why this is not a simple copy and paste process! Is there something in the core of the program that makes this hard to do? Genuinely curious but also a little frustrated!

There is no copy paste from a channel to another, but you can use anchor points for this if you want to keep multiple channels in sync (modifying one modifies the other)
https://support.allegorithmic.com/documentation/display/SPDOC/Anchor+Point

Thanks for the suggestion Jeremie! That's great in certain situations but since you can't use it on a regular layer, I can't edit it directly since I have to use it a fill layer with the anchor points.

  I wonder is there any plan to make copying between channels available? If you want to base your roughness map off your base color but modify it and tweak it by hand surely it makes sense to allow this? I suppose you could make a painted layer for your base color, duplicate it, modify it for the roughness and then reference both into a fill layer but this seems clunky and a bit user hostile when it really should be as simple and intuitive as copy/paste no? Just some thoughts, thanks for getting back to me though  :D

The source of an Anchor points can be any type of layer.
If you want to paint on the resulting layer (which has to be a fill alyer), simply add a paint effect ot it afterwards.

We have no plans for simple copy/pasing at this time because it goes against some of the non-destructive backend of Substance Painter.