Author Topic: Substance to 3ds Max 2018 and V-ray Gamma issue?  (Read 4787 times)

I can't seem to get the correct color from the Substance2 plugin. My Base/Diffsuse Color gamma is looking all washed out. In the preview it looks fine but when applied to a material it washes out. This is after I run the Substance to Vray script to build the material.
What am I doing wrong? I can't attach an image.
Gavin

Hey Gavin

We are experiencing the same issue here.  Using the sbsar from SDesigner and then using the Substance/Max plugin to make a Vray material and the end result is extremely washed out. 

I have tried applying the maps to a new Vray material with the same results.

Any help is much appreciated!

-Greg
Last Edit: March 20, 2018, 05:51:46 pm

And this is a screencap from SDesigner that I am making the sbsar file from:

Gamma in 3DMax is set to 2.2

from what ive read in the other thread (SP) youre doing right.
but iam not sure about the plugin.Is this a new /recent plugin?as the old one wasnt working well at all!
Only the max 2018 plugin should work,but correct me if iam wrong.

youre doing right about, maps->gamma. difuse and reflection on SRGB, rest on Gamma 1.0, i would say except AO.(ife youre using).
color mapping, you can set to mapping only no gamma correction to have proper color mapping.


Hmmm, not sure how to get the gamma to 1.0 on maps: 
Quote
rest on Gamma 1.0

I was looking at your prior post and you indicated that you were working in the metallic and roughness workflow through painter, and trying to get the same result with VRAY in 3Ds Max?

Just a bit of a tangent, but I had horrible experiences working in that workflow using VRAY and moved over to Arnold. VRAY is fine for Specular Glossiness workflow, but it was a pain in the butt to get quick and good results coming from the Metal Rough workflow without tweaking like a mad man.

The gamma is also set to 1.0 on import as seen below:
https://support.allegorithmic.com/documentation/display/integrations/Vray+for+3ds+Max

https://support.allegorithmic.com/documentation/download/attachments/157352261/gamma.png?version=1&modificationDate=1494861273769&api=v2

See the 'Override' 1.0 ? That sets the gamma to 1.0 as opposed to the default 2.2. Make sure you select that when you import the texture maps.

You can also try exporting the textures without the plugin, and just convert them like so:

(This info below was taken from another post so I'm not 100% sure if it's correct - I wouldn't try it unless you're still at a loss.)

Roughness to Glossiness: Invert values

Base Color to Difuse: Grab the "Metallic map", invert values (Your metal areas will be in black, your non-metal in white) add to your base color as Multiply. In Vray the metals uses dark/black in diffuse

Metallic to Reflection: Grab your Base Color, invert Metallic map and add as screen, Non metal areas use white reflection, the metal reflects color.

IOR: Fill the image with a 187,187,187 gray, add Metallic as Multiply and play a bit with the opacity on metallic to get the result you want

I've had some experience with this, but I'm not a technical artist, so take what I say with a grain of salt. I just go off what "looks" correct to me for use in VRay.

I have given up trying to make the Substance Plugin for 3DS Max part of my workflow for now, because the results are not good for VRay, and it doesn't work with VRay RT. So my method is to simply author my materials in PBR Metal/Rough in Substance Designer, and use the PBR Conversion Node with the VRay Target to output bitmaps for VRay Materials (Diffuse, Reflection, Normal, Reflection Glossiness, Fresnel IOR, and others such as Emissive and Opacity if I need them). For me this is desirable, because if I need to send off my work to a render farm, I don't need to worry about whether or not they have the Substance Plugin installed. Honestly, the more plugins you're using, the more likely you're going to run into trouble sending off your projects to be rendered eslewhere, so working with standard bitmaps in 3DSMax can save you a lot of headaches.

There is an issue that has to do with gamma corrections of image formats, when bringing bitmaps into 3DS Max, which has been nicely summarized here already. The image formats I'm referring to have a gamma correction applied to them as they are saved onto your disk (jpeg, png, targa)[Note: If you're using EXRs as your texture format, this does not apply, as they natively have a gamma of 1). I've found that almost all of the maps (normal, roughness [or reflection glossiness if you're using VRay], reflection map, and fresnel ior map, need to have a gamma override (from 2.2 to 1.0) applied to them when you import, or at least need some tweaking in their output curve. This is especially true for the the normal map, which pretty much looks incredibly janky unless your applied the gamma override to 1.0. Strangely, the gamma correction on the basecolor, or diffuse, map, coming out of SD, seems to be fine in most cases. Applying the gamma correction to the basecolor or diffuse map is what is making your material look "washed out," unless I'm mistaken.

There is also the color mapping system in VRay to consider, when it comes to how color "correct," your render is. By default, VRay is setup to use Reinhard, which is a combination of Linear Multiply and Exponential. Now, this can get very technical, and it's still a jumble in my head, but I have generally adopted two approaches, which I'm sure will make some technical artists groan, but I've found that I generally want to do some photoshopping after rendering with VRay 95% of the time, so for me the "correctness," of my render is fairly moot. That is not to say that you shouldn't do everything you can to ensure you get the greatest range of colors in your render, and if the following approaches make no sense for reasons I'm unaware of, I'm all ears. At the end of the day, a photographer is an artist, and a camera is an expressive tool, which can be used to create endless stylistic variations, :)

I have adopted using the HSV Exponential color mapping type, with the Color Mapping and Gamma mode selected in the advanced rollout. Your render will come out looking washed out or foggy gray, but if you save an EXR(HDR image) out with these settings, I find you have a really great range of values to work with in Photoshop. It surely is a completely inaccurate render, but the results I've gotten from it have been pretty stellar, and require less tweaking in photoshop. I just feel very comfortable with these settings, as I know what I can expect the image to look like after editing.

The second approach is to be as linear as possible, using Linear Multiply, and no gamma correction on the render. This produces a very dark image, but saving out an HDR means that all of the values in your render are there, you just need to bring them out in photoshop, which takes considerable tweaking. You should probably use this method, as it is more correct for sure, but it's just harder to anticipate what you're image will look like before you begin post production. One of the big draw backs of VRay's frame buffer, which kinda made me shy away from the linear method, is that you cannot render LUT's or OCIO color profiles onto your image directly out of the VRay frame buffer. This seems crazy to me, and hopefully a future update changes this, as I'd rather not HAVE to use photoshop, but so it goes.

Hope this was a little helpful :)
The images I attached are just a quick showcase of how I used the PBR Conversion Node method with VRay Target selected I described, with the Linear Render method. The leather and steel materials was from Substance Source, which I simply brought into a SD graph, and used the PBR Converter on it to get the VRay bitmaps I needed for my VRay Material, then simply rendered in VRay RT :) Pretty painless.

Last Edit: April 13, 2018, 08:14:13 pm

I was looking at your prior post and you indicated that you were working in the metallic and roughness workflow through painter, and trying to get the same result with VRAY in 3Ds Max?

Just a bit of a tangent, but I had horrible experiences working in that workflow using VRAY and moved over to Arnold. VRAY is fine for Specular Glossiness workflow, but it was a pain in the butt to get quick and good results coming from the Metal Rough workflow without tweaking like a mad man.

The gamma is also set to 1.0 on import as seen below:
https://support.allegorithmic.com/documentation/display/integrations/Vray+for+3ds+Max

https://support.allegorithmic.com/documentation/download/attachments/157352261/gamma.png?version=1&modificationDate=1494861273769&api=v2

See the 'Override' 1.0 ? That sets the gamma to 1.0 as opposed to the default 2.2. Make sure you select that when you import the texture maps.

You can also try exporting the textures without the plugin, and just convert them like so:

(This info below was taken from another post so I'm not 100% sure if it's correct - I wouldn't try it unless you're still at a loss.)

Roughness to Glossiness: Invert values

Base Color to Difuse: Grab the "Metallic map", invert values (Your metal areas will be in black, your non-metal in white) add to your base color as Multiply. In Vray the metals uses dark/black in diffuse

Metallic to Reflection: Grab your Base Color, invert Metallic map and add as screen, Non metal areas use white reflection, the metal reflects color.

IOR: Fill the image with a 187,187,187 gray, add Metallic as Multiply and play a bit with the opacity on metallic to get the result you want


YOU'RE THE BEST!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I FIX EVERYTHUNG FROME THE MATERIAL EDITOR, EACH MAP MATERIAL OF ALL SUBSTANCE MATERIALS WAS ON 2.2, I CHANCHED AND WOALA!!!!!!!! I LOVE YOU MAN!!!