Author Topic: An Update on Substance support in Unity 2018.1  (Read 25998 times)

Hi,

We will have the plugin ready when Unity 2018.1 officially launches. We are working on a beta which we are looking at releasing this month. I'm sorry but I can't give an ETA just yet on the beta.

Cheers,
Wes

Hi Wes

Thanks for the update and I look forward to a beta being released (potentially this month).  I completely understand that you have operated in as timely a manner as you can achieve with the news that Unity is dropping support (with its pros and cons); it's just a shame that developers have been left out in the cold a little with regards to updating.

As I noted in my post, I am using the 2018.1 beta for the new rendering pipeline that allows for vastly superior post-processing to old Unity but it was a compromise between overall better appearances and lose support for Substance or keep Substance support but block access to better rendering.

I took the plunge in the end and will eagerly await the new plugin beta.

Thanks again.

Hi,

We will have the plugin ready when Unity 2018.1 officially launches. We are working on a beta which we are looking at releasing this month. I'm sorry but I can't give an ETA just yet on the beta.

Cheers,
Wes

Hi Wes

Thanks for the update and I look forward to a beta being released (potentially this month).  I completely understand that you have operated in as timely a manner as you can achieve with the news that Unity is dropping support (with its pros and cons); it's just a shame that developers have been left out in the cold a little with regards to updating.

As I noted in my post, I am using the 2018.1 beta for the new rendering pipeline that allows for vastly superior post-processing to old Unity but it was a compromise between overall better appearances and lose support for Substance or keep Substance support but block access to better rendering.

I took the plunge in the end and will eagerly await the new plugin beta.

Thanks again.

Hi,

Thanks very much! Yeah, it was pretty crazy for the integration team to get spooled up on this so quickly. Unfortunately, we were given a heads up about this change coming in 2018.1. The team is very hard at work though and in the long run, this will be so much better for Substance support in Unity. We are excited.

Cheers,
wes
Head of Substance Demo Art Team
the3dninja@adobe.com
Twitter: The3DNinja

This is great! Can't wait to use 4k textures, was pretty disappointing when i found out that the max output was 2k due some technical limitations.

Keep up the good work :)

So if Unity sticks to their normal Timetable, We will see Unity 2018 in less then 4 weeks. Myself and some of my students are looking for when we can use a beta for Substance Materials in Unity? Even a Vague Ballpark Figure would help us establish some basic schedules.

Thanks for your time. :)

Perhaps I had misread comments I'd read elsewhere on this board and on other sites in late spring and early summer of 2017 then.  Back when Substance Designer 6 had been released, but was not working properly with Unity, you guys were quick to tell us that you had written and prepared the code for updating the Unity integration, but that Unity were simply opting not to integrate that code into the editor (I think it took them until the 2017.2 beta 4 to finally get that in).  I believe comments were also made at that time to suggest that for Unreal Engine, Allegorithmic uses a separately downloaded plugin that they are in control of, and that if that was the case here then Allegorithmic users would have already had the update.

I'm not sure, but at that time I had heard that Allegorithmic was exploring other options for the future.  This seemed to make sense, not only because of the frustrating delays with Substance integration getting updated but also the Unity Live Link being released as a standalone plugin.

If I was wrong to think that Allegorithmic is involved in writing some of the code for Unity game engine integration, or to think that Unreal Engine integration is through a plugin that Allegorithmic is involved with making, or that Allegorithmic had wished for the ability to have a plugin that they could quickly update for Unity, then I apologize for my misunderstanding.

The picture you are painting makes it sound as if Allegorithmic had no involvement in the decision and learned of the plan to deprecate integrated support for Substances back in November during the 2017.3 beta cycle.  Even if that was the case, that's still several weeks to start working on a plugin so that when 2018.1 entered into beta in early January, at least a rough beta of the plugin would be available because Allegorithmic did not want to leave the artists, developers, and other creators who rely on their products out in the cold.  Even a week or two late would be understandable and forgivable in such a situation... but we're now on beta 7.

I apologize for being so frustrated, but after having spent a lot of time in the last year to learning how to use Substances in my projects, only to have all that content essentially dead in the 2018.1 beta is extremely stressful.  I had been really wanting to dive deeper into Substance Designer in 2017 so I could create my own materials in addition to remixing the substances I have), but I wanted to wait until SD6+ was working properly with Unity, and then things got busy in the fall.  And now that there's an opportunity to jump in again while working on testing things in 2018.1.... things are at a dead stop in that department.  Testing and development in the 2018.1 beta now currently involves using FPO art and then swapping things at some point in the future, or moving away from Substances.

I understand both parties involved.

This decision ultimately gives Algorithmic more control over the integration. For instance, in Unity 5.6, normal maps were broken when targeting mobile platforms. This couldn't be fixed until the next Unity release, leaving a Unity version permanently broken in some way. And as I understand the process between Algorithmic's updates and Unity's integration is far from fast and painless. Possibly making this very frustrating for anyone involved.

I'm an asset store developer myself, and while I'm perfectly fine with this decision, I'm worried about my end users. I've just imported one of my package using Substance materials into Unity 2018.1 and I'm greeted with a shower of errors. I've had a detrimental negative review because of this, and it's outside of my control. People are sensitive about errors and warnings upon import, and this reflects poorly on my status as a publisher.

I'm assuming a compilation directive will be added with the upcoming Substance plugin. This would be necessary to wrap certain code functionality, to make sure they aren't compiled when the plugin is absent. Ultimately, this would allow people to add warnings to their code or GUI's.

I would much rather have Substances be converted to container of regular textures on import. This means there would have to be a barebone native integration.

A link to the asset store plugin page could be added to the inspector of these "container" assets.

Code: [Select]
Application.OpenURL("com.unity3d.kharma:content/<id>");This is a quick way to open an asset in the in-editor store browser.

Where installing the plugin provides full functionality.

Currently I'm required to strip away all Substance functionality from my packages, due to the reliance of a third party plugin. And the way the user is presented with errors, rather than a more intuitive way of notification.

I understand much of these points are outside of Algorithmic's control, but I hoping this feedback finds it's way to Unity ;)
Staggart Creations
[ WebsiteTwitterUnity Connect ]

Looking forward to the plug-in when it comes out and while there's some inconvenience, it does give Allegorithmic more control over updates of the integration, so here's hoping it's all good.

Just wondering what to do just now using Substance Source files in the latest Unity 2017.3 release and using the Substance plugin from the Asset Store. The.sbsar files can't be used on objects and just tells me it's been deprecated and will be removed in Unity 2018.1.

I guess I can just take each material from the sbsar file (normal, roughness, base colour, etc.) and plug them into Unity's Standard (Roughness setup) material?

Cheers.


Edit: Ah, just realised that simply plugging in the relevant materials isn't enough since the Substance Procedural Properties aren't there to tweak, etc.

Edit 2: Just read this over on Unity's site, so it looks like I'm having the issue because I'm on Unity 2017.3.1.

"Allegorithmic has just published a free plugin in the Asset Store for Substance Source and the Substance Painter live link. It will only work with Unity 2017.3 at the moment but soon (March) the Substance engine support will be added to this package and make it compatible with 2017.3+."
Last Edit: March 01, 2018, 11:53:19 am

I had read previously that a beta would be available by the end of last month.  Was that delayed, or am I looking in the wrong place for a download link?

Perhaps I had misread comments I'd read elsewhere on this board and on other sites in late spring and early summer of 2017 then.  Back when Substance Designer 6 had been released, but was not working properly with Unity, you guys were quick to tell us that you had written and prepared the code for updating the Unity integration, but that Unity were simply opting not to integrate that code into the editor (I think it took them until the 2017.2 beta 4 to finally get that in).  I believe comments were also made at that time to suggest that for Unreal Engine, Allegorithmic uses a separately downloaded plugin that they are in control of, and that if that was the case here then Allegorithmic users would have already had the update.

I'm not sure, but at that time I had heard that Allegorithmic was exploring other options for the future.  This seemed to make sense, not only because of the frustrating delays with Substance integration getting updated but also the Unity Live Link being released as a standalone plugin.

If I was wrong to think that Allegorithmic is involved in writing some of the code for Unity game engine integration, or to think that Unreal Engine integration is through a plugin that Allegorithmic is involved with making, or that Allegorithmic had wished for the ability to have a plugin that they could quickly update for Unity, then I apologize for my misunderstanding.

The picture you are painting makes it sound as if Allegorithmic had no involvement in the decision and learned of the plan to deprecate integrated support for Substances back in November during the 2017.3 beta cycle.  Even if that was the case, that's still several weeks to start working on a plugin so that when 2018.1 entered into beta in early January, at least a rough beta of the plugin would be available because Allegorithmic did not want to leave the artists, developers, and other creators who rely on their products out in the cold.  Even a week or two late would be understandable and forgivable in such a situation... but we're now on beta 7.

I apologize for being so frustrated, but after having spent a lot of time in the last year to learning how to use Substances in my projects, only to have all that content essentially dead in the 2018.1 beta is extremely stressful.  I had been really wanting to dive deeper into Substance Designer in 2017 so I could create my own materials in addition to remixing the substances I have), but I wanted to wait until SD6+ was working properly with Unity, and then things got busy in the fall.  And now that there's an opportunity to jump in again while working on testing things in 2018.1.... things are at a dead stop in that department.  Testing and development in the 2018.1 beta now currently involves using FPO art and then swapping things at some point in the future, or moving away from Substances.


Hi,

Thanks very much for your feedback and we completely understand the frustration. No need to apologize : ) We were frustrated by the update process we had to go through for Designer 6 and Unity, however we were not already working on an external solution for the substance engine plugin. We didn't have involvement in the decision for Unity to remove the plugin. The external plugin was not our idea. Unity reached out to us to let us know that they might want to do this and then decision was quickly made on their part. We then had close to 3 months to create a full plugin solution from scratch.

Please know, we don't fault Unity. Unity is doing what they can to make their engine the best it can be. Unity needs to make decisions based on what they feel is best for their users and we do the same. This decision, which we do feel will be better for Substance in Unity in the long run has caused us problems, but we will push through it and deliver. In the end, Substance in Unity will be much stronger and being external will allow us to never have issues like this again.

Even if that was the case, that's still several weeks to start working on a plugin so that when 2018.1 entered into beta in early January, at least a rough beta of the plugin would be available because Allegorithmic did not want to leave the artists, developers, and other creators who rely on their products out in the cold.  Even a week or two late would be understandable and forgivable in such a situation... but we're now on beta 7.

It may seem like several weeks is enough time to prepare, but in reality this gave us very little time to work on a new plugin. It was just not possible from a development standpoint as we are having to rebuild the entire plugin from the ground up, using new objects and nothing from the original plugin is used. The Unity 2018 plugin is a new plugin and it had to be approached using the same processes we use when creating a brand new integration.

We are committed to having our new solution ready for the official release of Unity 2018.1. We are working to deliver core functionality for working with Substances. Having a solution early during the Unity beta is unfortunately not something we could accommodate with the time frame we were given. Given the choice, we would love to have had the plugin released during the start of the Unity 2018.1 beta cycle. We are working hard and doing our best to get a beta out publicly. We have had to push this back due to development issues.

Please know, this has deeply affected us as well. We would never want to leave our users in a troubled spot where they can't get work done because of us. That hurts us deeply as developers and artists ourselves. Our team is working hard to prepare the plugin for release and have the transition be as smooth as it can. Realistically, I'm sure we will have some troubles to start as we are producing a completely new solution for Unity. However, the Unity 2018 plugin will develop into the strongest version of Substance in Unity we've ever had.

Cheers,

Wes
Head of Substance Demo Art Team
the3dninja@adobe.com
Twitter: The3DNinja

I had read previously that a beta would be available by the end of last month.  Was that delayed, or am I looking in the wrong place for a download link?

Hi,

Unfortunately we did need to push this back. Because of time constraints, we are putting the focus first on the internal beta we have and will look to release a public beta as soon as we can. I'm very sorry I don't have something to share today. Please know the team really wants to have the plugin available as early as possible.

Cheers,
Wes
Head of Substance Demo Art Team
the3dninja@adobe.com
Twitter: The3DNinja

You are doing a great job where Unity is not. Don't rush. Take your time.
We had to live without SBS6-support for so long now that it shouldn't matter if it takes you a few weeks longer to get this thing out.

IMHO it is Unity who is to blame - they added Substance support as an engine feature and did some heavy marketing on this stuff as well. Now they are simply breaking their promises. And doing so in silence like some shady thieves.

Will substance integration be released as a package for Unity's package manager sometime? or just as an asset store plugin?

This whole issue throws a real wrench into my development.  I was really depending on that integration to revamp my project after learning the substance tools.

How are any of the external packages that use substance, for example terrain shaders going to work? Tweaking properties in engine?

Almost makes me want to switch to Unreal.

Hello all!

Any updates on the state of the plugin?

I'm looking to integrate Substance in two major projects. One of them is still on Unity 2017.3, the other 2018.1 beta. 2018.1 features are closing fast on Unity's side, though, so I'd expect 2018.1 out of beta soon.

I'm interested in the architecture of the new plugin, and whether its API will be significantly different. Anything you could tell us from the Allegorithmic team?

Thanks -

Here's what we know so far...

Unity said at GDC that they intend to ship 2018.1.0 in April (and recently released beta 13).

Allegorithmic had initially pledged to get a beta to developers/artists (so they could start testing their projects) by the end of February.  That came and went, with an apology and explanation that they felt the plugin was not stable enough for users.  A couple weeks ago Allegorithmic demonstrated the plugin at GDC, but even as the end of March came and went there's been no sign of a beta release. 

They were still claiming that the plugin will be ready in time for the general release of Unity 2018.1.0, though I'm beginning to suspect that will be a relatively untested beta.