Author Topic: Can we get a guide/outline/basic steps for Substance Designer to 3d Max?  (Read 7444 times)

Having a heck of a time getting a material to look the same between substance designer and 3D max.  I use both vray and mental ray, so guides for either would be amazing.  I've searched for the past 2 days and cant find anything that helps - which blows my mind since this should be pretty basic stuff.  Tons of stuff on painter, but not much for SD.  There is a big difference since max uses the .sbsar file directly vs exported maps.

Specifically I'm looking for:
1. How to setup a material in SD with the intention to use in 3D Max with a spec/gloss workflow.
 - do we use the metalic/roughness template or the spec gloss template (my gut says spec gloss, but then I see posts about using metalic/roughess and then using the pbr converter node)

2. Depending on what template, do we also set the material type in SD to be the same?  My gut also says yes on this, but if we are working on metalic/roughness template with converter and intention to go to spec gloss, then maybe no?

3. What is this ior business between SD and Vray/Mental ray?  Do we create a new export node labeled IOR in SD?  If so, what do we plug into the input of that node in SD?

Any help would be much appreciated.  This software is so powerful inside of SD, but if I cant get the results to transfer over, it's kind of a dead-end tool for my intended purpose.

Thanks!!!
-Jesse

Having a heck of a time getting a material to look the same between substance designer and 3D max.  I use both vray and mental ray, so guides for either would be amazing.  I've searched for the past 2 days and cant find anything that helps - which blows my mind since this should be pretty basic stuff.  Tons of stuff on painter, but not much for SD.  There is a big difference since max uses the .sbsar file directly vs exported maps.

Specifically I'm looking for:
1. How to setup a material in SD with the intention to use in 3D Max with a spec/gloss workflow.
 - do we use the metalic/roughness template or the spec gloss template (my gut says spec gloss, but then I see posts about using metalic/roughess and then using the pbr converter node)

2. Depending on what template, do we also set the material type in SD to be the same?  My gut also says yes on this, but if we are working on metalic/roughness template with converter and intention to go to spec gloss, then maybe no?

3. What is this ior business between SD and Vray/Mental ray?  Do we create a new export node labeled IOR in SD?  If so, what do we plug into the input of that node in SD?

Any help would be much appreciated.  This software is so powerful inside of SD, but if I cant get the results to transfer over, it's kind of a dead-end tool for my intended purpose.

Thanks!!!
-Jesse

HI Jesse,

Sure thing : ) I am in the process of working on a tutorial for the integration guides covering max. When you mention the spec/gloss shader, what renderer/material are you using in Max?

Cheers,
Wes
Head of Substance Demo Art Team
the3dninja@adobe.com
Twitter: The3DNinja

Thanks so much - this is good to hear!

I think I've figured out a workflow, but it took about 15 hours of trial and error to get me to where I am now. 

We prefer to work in the metal/roughness preset in SD so that the Shaders can be used in game engines as well, but our main use currently in Max/Vray.

We use mostly VRay.  We're on 3.5.  We use the standard Vray shaders.

The thing that threw me the most between SD and Vray was coming from the spec/glossy template in SD.  A material in SD with white in the reflection channel and white in the glossy channel renders like chrome in SD, but almost like a shiny white plastic in Vray.  It's something with the fresnel reflections...I cant remember what I did at the moment to fix it (the files are at work) but I'll try to remember to post it on Monday when I'm back in the office. 


Or, I'll just hold out for your guide and see if I did it the right way so I don't lead others down the wrong path...:)

Thanks so much - this is good to hear!

I think I've figured out a workflow, but it took about 15 hours of trial and error to get me to where I am now. 

We prefer to work in the metal/roughness preset in SD so that the Shaders can be used in game engines as well, but our main use currently in Max/Vray.

We use mostly VRay.  We're on 3.5.  We use the standard Vray shaders.

The thing that threw me the most between SD and Vray was coming from the spec/glossy template in SD.  A material in SD with white in the reflection channel and white in the glossy channel renders like chrome in SD, but almost like a shiny white plastic in Vray.  It's something with the fresnel reflections...I cant remember what I did at the moment to fix it (the files are at work) but I'll try to remember to post it on Monday when I'm back in the office. 


Or, I'll just hold out for your guide and see if I did it the right way so I don't lead others down the wrong path...:)

Hi,

We have a script with the 3ds Max substance plugin update that will convert the Metal/rough to vray outputs. I will make a video on how this works. You can work completely in metal/rough and then just do the conversion at the end : )

Cheers,
wes

Head of Substance Demo Art Team
the3dninja@adobe.com
Twitter: The3DNinja

Hi Wes, was wondering if this tutorial was available yet? Would love to check it out!

I was going to start a new thread but just thought I'd add on to this one....

I'm not yet a Substance buyer but was really impressed with the Substance Designer trial.  I've got some Max/Vray/Unreal workflow questions, however. 

I wasn't even really aware of the B2M plugin for Max.  I used the trial to create materials in SD and then generate the bitmaps for Max/Vray materials, and then bitmaps and .sbsar files for Unreal.  This was an okay workflow but, in the end, a bit cumbersome.

Is the '3DS MAX Substance plugin' that you mention part of B2M?  B2M looks to be a stand-alone app but I'm not sure how that relates to the plugin?

Workflow
Within Max can I create a B2M material using PBR metal/roughness, and then export that material as a .sbsar file for use in Unreal?  It sounds like I can then take that same material (within Max Slate editor) and do the script that will convert to a Vray material?

Or do I simply stay within the B2M map and do all of this in that environment?

Tnx much
Last Edit: April 23, 2017, 03:34:45 pm

bump   :)

Hi Wes, was wondering if this tutorial was available yet? Would love to check it out!

I was going to start a new thread but just thought I'd add on to this one....

I'm not yet a Substance buyer but was really impressed with the Substance Designer trial.  I've got some Max/Vray/Unreal workflow questions, however. 

I wasn't even really aware of the B2M plugin for Max.  I used the trial to create materials in SD and then generate the bitmaps for Max/Vray materials, and then bitmaps and .sbsar files for Unreal.  This was an okay workflow but, in the end, a bit cumbersome.

Is the '3DS MAX Substance plugin' that you mention part of B2M?  B2M looks to be a stand-alone app but I'm not sure how that relates to the plugin?

Workflow
Within Max can I create a B2M material using PBR metal/roughness, and then export that material as a .sbsar file for use in Unreal?  It sounds like I can then take that same material (within Max Slate editor) and do the script that will convert to a Vray material?

Or do I simply stay within the B2M map and do all of this in that environment?

Tnx much

Hi,

B2M is a substance file itself. It also comes as a standalone version embedded in the Free Substance Player. You can use the 3ds max plugin to open B2M as a material in Max.

We will have a new 3ds Max plugin version 2.0 out this summer. The video tutorial will be focused on this version. However, I will create a doc on how to use the updater now : )

Cheers,
wes
Head of Substance Demo Art Team
the3dninja@adobe.com
Twitter: The3DNinja

 am in the process of working on a tutorial for the integration guides covering max
[/quote]
Are these tutorials currently available ?
Thx

am in the process of working on a tutorial for the integration guides covering max
Are these tutorials currently available ?
Thx
[/quote]

Hi,

I'm sorry but we don't have these videos yet. The team is still working on the Max V2 plugin. We will post more information when we have a beta.

Cheers,
wes
Head of Substance Demo Art Team
the3dninja@adobe.com
Twitter: The3DNinja

i wonder why a company that sells such a program as substance painter has no good step by step tutorial for one of the most used programs (3d max + vray) in the industry.  ::)

i mean honestly i learned the basics of painter faster than how to get that stuff into 3d max and render it correctly.

i have to deal with two different gamma on import, do i use fresnel IOR or IOR, i have to uncheck lock fresnel or use a value of 1.5 etc. etc.

there are a lot of such questions ( and a lot of confusing opinions how to do it ) yet in 2017 there is still no official source for such a step by step guide as it seems.

yes i watched some youtube videos, yes i read some third party tutorials.
but problem is there are at least 3 different ways for using the vraymat (not counting using the 3d max physical material).
Last Edit: August 16, 2017, 12:55:43 pm

i wonder why a company that sells such a program as substance painter has no good step by step tutorial for one of the most used programs (3d max + vray) in the industry.  ::)

i mean honestly i learned the basics of painter faster than how to get that stuff into 3d max and render it correctly.

i have to deal with two different gamma on import, do i use fresnel IOR or IOR, i have to uncheck lock fresnel or use a value of 1.5 etc. etc.

there are a lot of such questions ( and a lot of confusing opinions how to do it ) yet in 2017 there is still no official source for such a step by step guide as it seems.

yes i watched some youtube videos, yes i read some third party tutorials.
but problem is there are at least 3 different ways for using the vraymat (not counting using the 3d max physical material).

Hi,

We do have documentation for using 3ds max and vray. We have a rendering documentation for 3rd party renderers. Here is the 3ds Max docs.
https://support.allegorithmic.com/documentation/display/integrations/Vray+for+3ds+Max

Let me know if you have any questions after checking the docs. These docs details the steps for IOR, gamma and lock fresnel.

Cheers,
Wes
Head of Substance Demo Art Team
the3dninja@adobe.com
Twitter: The3DNinja


We do have documentation for using 3ds max and vray. We have a rendering documentation for 3rd party renderers. Here is the 3ds Max docs.
https://support.allegorithmic.com/documentation/display/integrations/Vray+for+3ds+Max

Let me know if you have any questions after checking the docs. These docs details the steps for IOR, gamma and lock fresnel.

Cheers,
Wes

maybe im just too stupid but i don´t see how that can help me.  :-\

i guess that script is helpful for substance materials created with substance designer?
i only see a option to load a .sbsar file in the substance map.

but i have maps from substance painter.

maybe i just need some sleep my head is spinning....


edit: ah i see the relevant info for me is on the right side of the page.
i thought that all info on that page belongs to the script.

thanks for the help.




Last Edit: August 16, 2017, 03:33:08 pm


We do have documentation for using 3ds max and vray. We have a rendering documentation for 3rd party renderers. Here is the 3ds Max docs.
https://support.allegorithmic.com/documentation/display/integrations/Vray+for+3ds+Max

Let me know if you have any questions after checking the docs. These docs details the steps for IOR, gamma and lock fresnel.

Cheers,
Wes

maybe im just too stupid but i don´t see how that can help me.  :-\

i guess that script is helpful for substance materials created with substance designer?
i only see a option to load a .sbsar file in the substance map.

but i have maps from substance painter.

maybe i just need some sleep my head is spinning....


edit: ah i see the relevant info for me is on the right side of the page.
i thought that all info on that page belongs to the script.

thanks for the help.

The script is for Substance Designer sbsar files. On the right side of the page there are steps for Substance Painter. The maps exported from the vray preset hook into the vraymtl.

Cheers,
Wes
Head of Substance Demo Art Team
the3dninja@adobe.com
Twitter: The3DNinja

I've heard it's in Allegorithmic's roadmap, but when can we expect the 3ds Max Substance to Corona material conversion?

I've heard it's in Allegorithmic's roadmap, but when can we expect the 3ds Max Substance to Corona material conversion?

Hi,

We are working on a corona preset for the new 3ds max 2018 plugin now. We hope to have the update out soon. In the meantime, please take a look at this guide. https://support.allegorithmic.com/documentation/display/integrations/Corona+for+3ds+Max

We are automating this setup in the new plugin.

Cheers,
wes
Head of Substance Demo Art Team
the3dninja@adobe.com
Twitter: The3DNinja